# Statistics question re: video poker **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 20, 2017, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695 "2017-07-20T02:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/1 "2017-07-20T02:43:46Z")
I play video poker (the free kind on my phone) on occasion and consulted a flow chart or hierarchical list that tells you what has the most value, but one situation keeps coming up that the list does not address. I’ll put the list at the end. The case is three unsuited high cards. There are entries for two unsuited high cards and one high card, but nothing for three unsuited high cards. Statistically speaking would you keep all three, keep two at random, or something else? If you have something at the top of the list keep that, otherwise keep going down the list. Four of a kind, straight flush, royal flush 4 to a royal flush Full house, Flush, Straight, Three of a kind Four to a straight flush Two pair High pair (jacks or better) Three to a royal flush Four to a flush Low pair Four to an outside straight Two suited high cards Three to a straight flush Two unsuited high cards Suited J-T, Q-T, or K-T One high card Discard everything ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/2 "2017-07-20T03:02:57Z")
This is probably better suited (ahem) for The Game Room. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/3 "2017-07-20T03:18:46Z")
I caught it right after posting and then messaged you. So sorry. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/4 "2017-07-20T07:34:00Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > I caught it right after posting and then messaged you. So sorry. No worries- easy fix! ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/5 "2017-07-20T11:48:43Z")
I believe with three unsuited high cards you keep the lowest two. It’s slightly easier to make a straight if you’re holding JQ instead of KA, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/6 "2017-07-20T12:13:57Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I believe with three unsuited high cards you keep the lowest two. It’s slightly easier to make a straight if you’re holding JQ instead of KA, for example. Yes, except keeping unsuited JQK is better than keeping any 2 and discarding the other. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/7 "2017-07-20T12:20:10Z")
That’s assuming that the three high cards are together. What if it’s JKA, for instance? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/8 "2017-07-20T12:47:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That’s assuming that the three high cards are together. What if it’s JKA, for instance? Then you go with the “yes” that started the sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/9 "2017-07-20T13:25:50Z")
What to do with them would depend on the relative payouts for each type of hand. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/10 "2017-07-20T14:04:04Z")
What game are we playing? We need to know the payouts. “Video poker” means nothing; there’s two dozen kinds of video poker. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/11 "2017-07-20T14:52:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > What game are we playing? We need to know the payouts. > > “Video poker” means nothing; there’s two dozen kinds of video poker. I presume he’s playing five-card draw. Payouts, on the other hand, unknown. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/12 "2017-07-20T15:38:30Z")
Assuming you are playing the original Full Pay (9/6) Jacks or Better – the answer might change if your game is different. The simple, easy to learn strategy is to only hold two of three unsuited high cards. If you want to invest the time to learn the more complicated optimal strategy there is one time when holding three unsuited cards is correct and some times when holding two specific unsuited high cards is correct – for example: unsuited JQK unsuited JQ Suited TJ 2 unsuited high cards, K highest Suited TQ 2 unsuited high cards, A highest J only Suited TK Q only It takes significantly longer to learn the Optimal Strategy (perhaps 40 hours of study and practice, compared to about 10 hours to master the Simple Strategy) and it may slow down your play so much that you actually lose by playing the better strategy. The difference between Simple and Optimal is 0.08% – so if you play 600 hands per hour on a $1 machine, that’s 600 \* $5 = $3000 per hour you put in to get back $2.40 more per hour by playing the optimal strategy – which may be worse than playing 700 or more hands per hour using the simple strategy if you’re getting a percentage of cash back from a casino based on your Coin In. Links to the two strategies: [Simple](https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/jacks-or-better/9-6/simple/) [Optimal](https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/jacks-or-better/9-6/optimal/) ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/13 "2017-07-23T01:59:31Z")
Jacks or better is the game. RF 250x bet + jackpot SF 50x bet 4 of a kind 20x FH 9x Flush 6x Straight 4x 3 of a kind 3x 2 pair 2x Jacks or better 1x ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/14 "2017-07-23T04:16:06Z")
Yep, that’s the classic 9/6 game – pays 9 for Full House, 6 for Flush. Use either of the strategies linked above. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/15 "2017-07-23T05:25:34Z")
There’s probably a statistical difference (however slight) between putting the three unsuited high cards above or below the two unsuited high cards ranking in that list. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/16 "2017-07-23T15:21:07Z")
How would slowing down your play ever cost you more? The house turns a profit proportional to the number of plays you make. Slow play means slow loss of money. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/17 "2017-07-23T15:29:53Z")
Turble’s point is that if you’re in a casino with a sufficiently favourable rewards program, you can make more back on the rewards than the house edge in Jacks or Better. If you know how to really use the casino rewards program to your favor, you’ll end up a few bucks. Having said that, this requires: 1. That it’s in fact the case the rewards program is that good, but in osme casinos it is not, and 2. That you play a truly enormous amount of video poker. The odds charts are designed to assume that from time to time you’ll hit a royal flush (I am not sure, but would assume, that the charts further assume you play the optimal amount of credits to max out the return; anywhere I have played, you need to play five times the bet to get the max return on a royal flush.) In fact, if you only play the game casually, you won’t. You will get a royal flush only roughly once in every 41,000 hands assuming you play more or less correctly. I’ve played hundreds and hundreds of hours of Jacks or Better - it’s the only game I’ll play while waiting to play real poker - and have never hit one. I’ve never SEEN anyone hit one. But if you play two machines full time as your job, you’ll get a few. Do you wanna do that, though? ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/18 "2017-07-23T17:03:35Z")
I played video poker full-time (40 hours a week) for a living for two years before burning out on it. I know people who have played for a living for over 30 years. Like **RickJay** said, the key is the rewards program at the casino. Say you’re playing a game that pays back 99.5% at a casino that gives cash back of 0.5% … you’re playing even with the house while gaining comps like meals, show tickets, etc. But once a week the casino offers double or triple points … now you’re getting 99.5% back from the machine plus 1% or 1.5% additional back from the promotion. It was almost like a club, all the slot pros showing up at the extra points day at each casino. In addition to the cash back, the casinos also send out other bonuses. I used to get coupons for cash from several casinos every week, good for anywhere from $50 to $500 – just take in the coupon and get the cash. Some places also offer free slot tournaments for regular players, some with very significant prizes ($10k, $25k, $50k). Lots of benefits and bonuses for people who are willing to pump $3000 per hour into their slot machines. Video poker is a solved game; there are video poker trainers and video poker hand analyzer widely available. When I played I knew exactly how much each press of the Deal button was worth for the game I was playing and the current bonus structure – I paid no attention to how much I was currently winning or losing – my only thought was that each time I press the deal button I earned 5.6 cents or 7.3 cents or 8.1 cents or whatever the actual number was. I could comfortably cruise at 700 hands per hour for hours at a time (a little slower on Double Bonus, a more difficult game) and could play faster for a while but tired quickly – I remember one particular 50 cent Deuces Wild machine that dealt very fast; I could hit 1100 hands per hour on it but couldn’t maintain that pace for very long – it was worth $60 an hour for as long as I could play it (until they slowed down the dealing speed). So yeah … find the most lucrative promotion, nod to all the other pros you saw at a different casino yesterday, and just keep pressing that Deal button … the more times you press it, the more money you make. BTW, I had many losing weeks but never had a losing month. If you have actually played hundreds of hours of JoB and never hit a royal, something is wrong, either with your play or with the machines. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistics-question-re-video-poker/791695/19 "2017-07-23T18:38:04Z")
> [@Turble](#): > > BTW, I had many losing weeks but never had a losing month. If you have actually played hundreds of hours of JoB and never hit a royal, something is wrong, either with your play or with the machines. Do the math, it’s perfectly reasonable to not see one after hundreds of hours of play.