# Stem Cell medical technology. Is this even possible? Scam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 18, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564 "2010-04-18T21:58:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/21 "2011-09-01T15:08:33Z")
I have a very simple question for the good doctor: How many adult stem cells, within an order of magnitude, are typically found and extracted from the bloodstream during your process? In other words, are we talking about 1, 10, 100, 1000? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/22 "2011-09-01T15:20:01Z")
Man, I hope Dr. M comes back. I’ll be warming my popcorn. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/23 "2011-09-01T15:24:43Z")
so we’re still not sure about a duck’s quack’s echo. But it’s fairly certain now that a quack ducks salvos. ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/24 "2011-09-01T15:33:43Z")
> [@picker](#): > > so we’re still not sure about a duck’s quack’s echo. But it’s fairly certain now that a quack ducks salvos. It’s times like this when I wish we could “like” or otherwise approve of a single post. Well Done! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/25 "2011-09-01T16:15:59Z")
> [@ascaac](#): > > We are not a scam outfit and I would love to answer any questions anyone has in regards to stem cell treatments. Could you please provide the peer-reviewed data of efficacy of your treatments? Something from PubMed or similar. Thanks in advance. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/26 "2011-09-01T16:34:23Z")
They’ve been doing some stem-cell stuff here in Thailand, and I mean at supposedly reputable hospitals, but I’ve always been skeptical. The most prominent patient I know of has been the Hawaiian entertainer [Don Ho](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_ho). From the link above: \*\*“Ho was diagnosed with cardiomyopathy in 2005 and had a pacemaker implanted. He contacted a biotechnology company specializing in treating heart conditions with adult stem cells working in conjunction with Dr. Shoa, cardiac surgeon and pioneer of the use of adult stem cells for heart disease. On December 6, 2005, Ho had his own blood-derived stem cells injected into his heart by Amit Patel and his fellow surgeons in Thailand. The treatment went without incident. Later in the month, Ho said, ‘I’m feeling much better and I’m so happy I came up here to do it’.” “Around September 12, 2006, Ho married Haumea Hebenstreit, who was a production assistant for his show at the Waikīkī Beachcomber. A few days later Ho went into cardiac arrest. Although he had a new pacemaker installed on September 16, 2006, Ho died in Waikīkī from heart failure on April 14, 2007.”\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/27 "2011-09-01T16:43:37Z")
For those curious about the “Panamerican School of Natural Medicine” from which Dr. Mitrani says he got his Doctor of Naturopathy degree, [here’s a link](http://www.schoolofnaturalmedicine.org) to its highly impressive website\*, where the proprietors ask “Is it 4 you?”. _“We subscribe to the time tested methods of our great forefathers in Eclectic Medicine.”_ Good, I love eclecticism. - “Our clinical specialties and training programs emphasize natural medicine with reliance on nutrition, herbal medicine, and physiotherapies. We also include bioenergetic modalities - electroacupuncture according to Voll, high frequency physiotherapy, electrotherapy, infrared therapy, and other non-invasive methods.”\* Could they have meant to say “electric” instead of “eclectic”? While the school claims to offer clinical experience, they emphasize their online self-study program. Did Dr. Mitrani perhaps take advantage of this course, seeking to streamline his education? As the school notes, _“Students today are subjected to rout (sic) memorization with little clinical relevance.”_ I didn’t see stem cell therapy listed among the coursework at Panamerican. Is this now a standard part of the naturopathic curriculum?\*\* \*the logo suggests they are Minnesota Vikings fans. \*\*if it turns out that there are no actual stem cells injected into the patient, this is explainable on the grounds of homeopathic therapy (which is a part of naturopathy). An absence of stem cells would actually make the treatment _stronger_ according to homeopathic principles of dilution. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/28 "2011-09-02T00:22:27Z")
I did a quick search on PubMed for articles authored by “Mitrani” and came up with 267 hits. It looks like there are a lot of Mitranis out there doing research. Without knowing this guy’s initials, it’s impossible to say which, if any, are written by him. A cursory glance didn’t reveal any obvious stem-cell related candidates. I also poked around their website looking for publications, which they would surely have if they were legitimate. They do have a [Publications](http://www.ascaac.com/publications.html) page, with links to articles in respected journals. I admit that took me back for a minute. Then I realized that they’re just linking to other groups’ work. None of the real articles in real journals were authored by anyone associated with this group - they’re just linking to work that other people have done on stem cells to lend them an air of authenticity. And to top it off, at the bottom of the list are “articles” that WERE written by them, but which are not from peer-reviewed journals. They’re just their own websites. Slick. It’s several “real articles by other people that look related to what we do” then “nonsense we made up”, all in a professional-looking format. Now, they’ll no doubt point out that they never SAY that they wrote those articles, and that’s true. It says “World Wide Combined Research,” which _sounds_ like they’re part of this big vast global network of research, but in reality just means “stuff other people around the world have done that has something to do with stem cells”. I wonder if the authors of those papers realize that their work is being featured on this site. Oh, hey, they all have corresponding authors’ email addresses listed. Perhaps I’ll let them know. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that the website format looks identical to pretty much every real research group in the world, except that I have never EVER seen a group’s “Publications” page contain anything except their own papers. Never. Until now. No, there’s no attempts at deception going on here. Honestly, if this stuff doesn’t raise every red flag you have in your head, you need to get your red-flag-raising machinery retested. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/29 "2011-09-02T00:40:00Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > I did a quick search on PubMed for articles authored by “Mitrani” and came up with 267 hits. It looks like there are a lot of Mitranis out there doing research. Without knowing this guy’s initials, it’s impossible to say which, if any, are written by him. A cursory glance didn’t reveal any obvious stem-cell related candidates. I found on his website that his name is Albert. A search for “Mitrani A” returned 22 results, mostly to do with cardiology and gynecology. There were no articles that had anything to do with stem cells. The only reasonable conclusion is that this “doctor” has not published anything on this topic in any reputable peer-reviewed journal. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/30 "2011-09-02T12:43:28Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Honestly, if this stuff doesn’t raise every red flag you have in your head, you need to get your red-flag-raising machinery retested. That whole operation raises more red flags than a Soviet-style May Day parade. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/31 "2011-09-02T14:02:20Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > the logo suggests they are Minnesota Vikings fans. They lost all credibility with me right there… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/32 "2011-09-02T14:29:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Could you please provide the peer-reviewed data of efficacy of your treatments? Something from PubMed or similar. > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > Shodan As much as I dislike the dispensing of medical advice by anonymous posters, I have some for you: Holding your breath waiting for his response could do irreversible damage to your body. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/33 "2011-09-02T15:24:36Z")
Gee, do ya think? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![aux203](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/77aa72/32.png) [@aux203](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aux203)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/34 "2011-09-02T16:10:06Z")
I almost hate to reply to this so let me be clear: these claims are essentially fantasy. But just to clarify a couple points: > [@picunurse](#): > > The likelihood of a vial of blood containing even one stem cell is slim. Stem cells are normally in the bone marrow. There are drugs that stimulate the bone marrow to over produce them until the spill into the circulation, but that takes time to work too. > [@Bricker](#): > > I have a very simple question for the good doctor: > > How many adult stem cells, within an order of magnitude, are typically found and extracted from the bloodstream during your process? In other words, are we talking about 1, 10, 100, 1000? If you actually want to use blood derived stem cells for some purpose, you generally given the donor a stimulating factor, then filter the cells of interest from the blood, similar to what happens when you donate platelets. You can actually get quite a few stem cells this way. Of course, stem cell is a rather vague term. That is outside of the scope of this discussion but an interesting topic in its own right. Just drawing blood without these measures is fairly pointless, but there might be a few cells floating around in there. If we want to be generous and say each vial is 10 mL for a total sample of 20-30 mL of blood, on the order of 1 or 2 sounds about right. It varies by time of day, if you’ve had a cold recently, if skinned your knee a couple days ago, what cell lineages you are after, etc, but that’s a reasonable ballpark. These things are usually measured in cells per _liter_ of blood processed just for reference. Now, you can get stem cells from peripheral blood. You can use those cells to treat disease. These cells can even differentiate into cells other than you might expect. Skin or heart for example. None of those statements individually is controversial. It bears some superficial resemblance to treatment with platelet rich plasma, which is becoming more common these days (and is also still highly controversial) and there are variety of experimental protocols using stem cells under investigation. The claims made by this “doctor” are flatly ridiculous but to people without a scientific background, it’s easy to see how they have a veneer of verisimilitude. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/35 "2011-09-02T16:12:04Z")
I don’t think we’ve given Dr. Mitrani enough credit for his stem cell therapy’s ability to not only provide fabulous cures for chronic ailments, but to reverse the effects of aging as well. The Ecuador clinic uses _Stemotherapy_™ and something called a _Lulum Energy_™ device to work its wonders. The _Lulum Energy_™ is especially fascinating, seeing as how it delivers “micro-current, nano-current and pico-current” (your cells won’t know what hit them). It also provides “Color Therapy for cellular health”, since as we all know :dubious:, cells communicate in the body “through a sophisticated language of color-light”. Most amazing of all, the _Lulum Energy_™ promotes _instantaneous lymphatic drainage_. This might sound alarming to skeptics (imagine the loud suction noise as all your lymph fluid suddenly swirls out) but it must be terrific anti-aging juju. Find out more [here](http://www.gaiabuilt.com/ascaac/). ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/36 "2011-09-02T17:31:08Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > This might sound alarming to skeptics (imagine the loud suction noise as all your lymph fluid suddenly swirls out) but it must be terrific anti-aging juju. Unfortunately, I immediately imagined the sound of a toilet flushing. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/37 "2011-09-02T18:31:34Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Unfortunately, I immediately imagined the sound of a toilet flushing. As a side benefit, all the excess cash is simultaneously sucked out of your wallet. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/38 "2011-09-02T18:49:08Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Unfortunately, I immediately imagined the sound of a toilet flushing. Those homeopathetic solutions don’t just stir themselves, y’know. ---
**Author:** ![melekwishes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@melekwishes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/melekwishes)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/39 "2011-11-22T13:35:49Z")
I cant believe that there are so many people out there that are trying to defame a name without any information that they have personalty experienced! You think its a scam! Or it sounds like a scam! How would you know? Did you have the treatment your self? Did a family member have the treatment? If not, then on what grounds do you have to make such a statement. I say this because I have had a treatment and yes, it was at that facility and yes, the treatment worked for me! Not saying that it would work for everybody, but really if you are ill and conventional medicine did not work… What do you have to loose ???.. You cant take the money with you if you die ( ENLESS THERE IS A WAY I HAVE NOT HEARD ABOUT?), and after so many years of hard work and taking care of everybody else, what is wrong with spending money on your own body to make it well? I must say, I was not sure and yes I was skeptical especially leaving the country, but knowledge is power and with great power one can create there own miracles… DO YOUR HOMEWORK… AND MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION FOR YOU! I paid just like everyone else and I must say that it was the best money I could have spent on my self… I feel great and know I am getting stronger everyday… I am a cancer survivor and I am blessed to have found them… And for the record… The treatment is not 20 mins long… It takes hours, there are medical doctors in the room with you at all times and there facility was outstanding AND SPOTLESS… So I say to the public … Before you knock something or make an opinion on someone… Know what your talking about… Have the same experience and see with your own eyes what really happens… You never know… It may save your life one day…your body is the only answer on how you feel… You must work everyday on it… Don’t look for the easy way out… Its a combination of mind, body and spirit…its a life style change… Life is a circle and karma you cant run from… I would like to thank the American stem cell and Anti-aging Center for giving me a longer lease on life and watching my children grow… I would do it again and would recommend people to do there research… Its not for everybody but definitely it was right for me! Thank you!!! ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564/40 "2011-11-22T19:04:54Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > That whole operation raises more red flags than a Soviet-style May Day parade. _sniff_ I miss the Cold War, I just love men in [uniform](http://rusnavy.com/history/interesting/images/ad7.jpg)! > [@yanceylebeef](#): > > It’s times like this when I wish we could “like” or otherwise approve of a single post. > > Well Done! +1 > [@melekwishes](#): > > I I am a cancer survivor and I am blessed to have found them.. Don’t try and pull the cancer survivor card here, I am a 2 times cancer survivor, and I am not the only one on the board. I am glad you _think_ it worked for you - Doctors are absolutely puzzled as to why in most cases you can leave someone absolutely untreated and they are _cured_ and in many cases [and even the Vatican agrees] there is what seems to be a cure which is either residual activity of previous treatment or spontaneous remission. I seriously doubt that his treatments worked, if they worked - or a patient managed to get amazingly lucky with the 1 single stem cell extracted actually doing what it was claimed it would do. I have several chronic conditions that I am hopeful that stem cell treatment will be developed for, and I have contacts in the guinea pig business that know I am willing to be a test subject WHEN they have gotten to the human test subject level. Since the actual doctors who are researching have not yet reached the human testing level, I am not going to spend hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of dollars, or one red cent going to someone who has not been part of the actual research teams. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stem-cell-medical-technology-is-this-even-possible-scam/536564.md?page=3)