# Steophan: '"Blacks are subhuman" is either true or false, and by itself has no moral component' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 20, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514 "2015-03-20T17:32:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/221 "2015-03-22T23:51:11Z")
I like **MrDibble** , but everyone is wrong sometimes. I think he’s wrong on **Ann Hedonia**. I’m confident that he has the self-awareness to admit the possibility that his initial impression might have been wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/222 "2015-03-23T00:09:52Z")
You may like him, **iiandyiiii** , but if you think that’s going to happen, then you don’t know him. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/223 "2015-03-23T00:17:01Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You may like him, **iiandyiiii** , but if you think that’s going to happen, then you don’t know him. We’ll see. I’m an optimist. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/224 "2015-03-23T04:05:12Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Magellan is a racist because he thinks black people are less intelligent. There’s only one problem with this, Precious, I don’t think that and have never expressed that sentiment. In fact, I’ve expressed that I DO NOT think black people are less intelligent.(Except Dribbles. And you, if you are black.) In fact, several times directly to iiandyiiii in fairly recent threads. So, you really should either apologize or provide a site. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/225 "2015-03-23T04:06:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I like **MrDibble** , but everyone is wrong sometimes. I think he’s wrong on **Ann Hedonia**. I’m confident that he has the self-awareness to admit the possibility that his initial impression might have been wrong. It was pointed out to him several times, and he doubles down. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/226 "2015-03-23T04:39:19Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Exactly. You can’t say “Gosh, I think the WORLD of my dear black friends who just so happen to be genetically stupid.” That’s how you think of pets, as dear friends who are mentally deficient. It isn’t how you think of people for whom you really have respect. > [@Monty](#): > > I am certainly no fan of MrDibble, yet he does have a point regarding Steophan and magellan01. Regarding **Ann Hedonia** , though, I’m surprised he missed the point that badly. Heck, his response to her very clear posting is akin to those morons who think _niggardly_ is a racist word. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I like **MrDibble** , but everyone is wrong sometimes. I think he’s wrong on **Ann Hedonia**. I’m confident that he has the self-awareness to admit the possibility that his initial impression might have been wrong. I think there’s a miscommunication here - I _get_ that the _intent_ of her analogy was as you say. That’s not the point. **iiandyiiii** , let me ask you this: If it’s odious for **Chief Pedant** to analogize Blacks and cockroaches, why is it _not_ odious for Ann to analogize “people who look different” and dogs? Bearing in mind that “She’s on my side” and “her message is anti-racist” are not relevant to the relative odiousness of using the animal analogy. Nor is “Cockroaches are filthier than dogs”🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/227 "2015-03-23T04:43:13Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I DO NOT think black people are less intelligent.(Except Dribbles I’m not Black. And it’s true **mags** doesn’t say Black people are less intelligent, that I know of. This doesn’t stop him from talking the racist’s side in those arguments, though. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/228 "2015-03-23T04:50:31Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m wondering if **MrDibble** will now be calling you racist, for admitting that you have racist thoughts that never leave your head Why on Earth would I do that? I’d happily call his _thoughts_ racist, even though they never leave his head. Because they would be. But if he doesn’t give them utterance and also thinks non-racist or anti-racist thoughts, I’d have to be an idiot to judge him on anything less than the sum of his thoughts, as he chose to articulate them. What your lying racist-loving half-brain can’t seem to see is that I judge actual posts of people here, as that’s all I have to go on. Whereas you can’t see posts that exist and make up ones that don’t, so I can see why that must be difficult for you. > [@](#): > > - it’s certainly consistent with other times he’s done that to people. Nope, never claimed to be psychic. Just go by the stuff they post - like ‘“Blacks are subhuman” is not racist’ … ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/229 "2015-03-23T04:50:31Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think there’s a miscommunication here - I _get_ that the _intent_ of her analogy was as you say. That’s not the point. No. The point is that you completely misunderstood what she posted. She did not do what you said she did. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/230 "2015-03-23T04:52:23Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > She did not do what you said she did. Did she make an analogy where dogs were analogous to people who look different from her, yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/231 "2015-03-23T05:21:13Z")
Are you a complete moron, yes or yes? For those who are conversant in the written word, what she did was provide an example of what is racist. She, herself, as stated, does not believe such an analogy. Since you’re obviously having trouble seeing what was posted, let’s quote it again: > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Let’s say I have a dog. I treat my dog with nothing but love and kindness. I don’t expect my dog to go out and get a job or even help out around the house because I know he’s not capable of doing so, he’s just a dog, not a human. Sometimes my dog even acts in ways that make him almost seem like a person but deep down I know he doesn’t experience emotions in the same way or see the world in the same way I do because he’s not a person, he’s just a dog. I love my dog and would never hurt him, I just don’t expect too much from him in terms of human behavior such as impulse control. When he acts like a human I think it’s just precious but deep down I know he’s just a dog. > > But if I felt the same way about a person that looked different from me I’d be a big ole racist. Right there, she did not make an analogy. She described in the first paragraph how she would feel about a dog, leaving humans out of it. Then, in the second paragraph, she specifically and clearly stated that if someone felt that way about a human, then that person is a racist. She was describing what a racist attitude is. You owe her an apology. You probably owe the English language an apology, too. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/232 "2015-03-23T05:36:44Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Right there, she did not make an analogy. Of course she did. She discussed a setup for a dog, then jumped _to the same setup_ for a person. That’s an analogy. That the outcome for the human is “racism is bad, m’kay” doesn’t mean she didn’t make the analogy. But you’re right, you’re all right. I do owe her an apology. I should not have called _her_ a racist, I should just have said “that’s an offensive analogy”. **Ann** , I’m sorry I called you a racist, and I was wrong to do so. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/233 "2015-03-23T06:17:34Z")
Analogies are a way of illustration that can be effective, but I find they are frequently distractions. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/234 "2015-03-23T07:08:06Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Analogies are a way of illustration that can be effective, but I find they are frequently distractions. It’s situational, of course, but I think waltzing into an already-heated thread and tossing an analogy that compares people and animals is, at best, completely tone-deaf. A humans vs animals analogy is just fine in some GD thread about evo-devo issues, or even an IMHO discussion about sexuality. But a Pit thread _whose very title_ includes the phrase “Blacks are subhuman”? Despite what the Cowardly Liar thinks, I don’t read the board looking for offense. But this thread, I was already primed to be offended by racist idiots. So I went off at someone who didn’t deserve it. But I still say it wasn’t out of thin air. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/235 "2015-03-23T07:14:19Z")
Good grief. You really are something. She very clearly pointed out that anyone who does have that kind of feeling is racist. You’re using the term tone-deaf about it; but in reality, it’s you who are blinded by the words–words, by the way, which you misunderstood. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/236 "2015-03-23T07:41:37Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Good grief. You really are something. She very clearly pointed out that anyone who does have that kind of feeling is racist. Yes, I got that. Someone can say an offensive thing even unintentionally (as I’ve acknowledged). > [@](#): > > You’re using the term tone-deaf about it Because it was. Hell, **iiandyiii** had already referenced one such racist analogy in this thread. Then Ann came along and made a new one. > [@](#): > > ; but in reality, it’s you who are blinded by the words–words, by the way, which you misunderstood. Nope. It very clearly is an analogy, there was no misunderstanding about that on my part. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/237 "2015-03-23T09:57:02Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What your lying racist-loving half-brain can’t seem to see is that I judge actual posts of people here, as that’s all I have to go on. No, you don’t judge based on the posts. You interpret people’s posts through a filter designed to see racism everywhere, even where it isn’t. I note that you still haven’t taken back your absurd claim that the analogy to dogs was racist, for example. You found it offensive? Tough. That’s not the relevant test. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/238 "2015-03-23T09:59:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’m not Black. Then why are you carrying on like the arbiter of what should or shouldn’t be offensive to black people? Why are you getting personally offended by things that don’t apply to you? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/239 "2015-03-23T10:21:16Z")
“ **Steophan** is racist” is a statement that’s either true or false. The assertion that something is a certain way is either true or false, and by itself has no moral component, any more that “the sun revolves round the earth” does, to pick an example from further back in time. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/240 "2015-03-23T10:22:44Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, you don’t judge based on the posts. Of course I do - I may misjudge sometimes, but it’s strictly by what they actually type. > [@](#): > > You interpret people’s posts through a filter designed to see racism everywhere, even where it isn’t. Says the guy who thinks “Blacks are subhuman” isn’t inherently racist…I’ll stick with possibly having a slightly itchy trigger finger over being willfully blind to racism, any day. > [@](#): > > I note that you still haven’t taken back your absurd claim that the analogy to dogs was racist, for example. Not read so good, do we? I said calling her racist was wrong. > [@](#): > > You found it offensive? Tough. That’s not the relevant test. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514.md?page=13)