# Steophan: '"Blacks are subhuman" is either true or false, and by itself has no moral component' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 20, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514 "2015-03-20T17:32:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/101 "2015-03-21T16:01:53Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, I think it’s making analogies comparing people to dogs that makes you a big old racist. Are we supposed to be glad it wasn’t cockroaches? Careful, that knee jerking is going to cause you to lose a tooth or knock yourself out. This is a perfect example of why you have a fucked-up, warped-beyond-all-sense-of-recognition of what constitutes racism. You’re a fucking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/102 "2015-03-21T16:42:36Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, making that analogy doesn’t make someone racist. We’ve _already_ established you have no fucking clue what constitutes racism (or reality). It’s right in the title of this thread, in fact. > [@](#): > > I think we can add “analogy” to the long, and ever growing, list of things that you don’t even slightly understand. I think we can add “done” to the list of words _you_ don’t understand. > [@Steophan](#): > > Nope. I just have no idea what they have to do with this thread, or what SIRE is. If it’s something that was mentioned in those threads, it’s obscure enough that a quick Google won’t show what it is. _If_ you’d read those threads, you wouldn’t have to Google the term, as it came up all the fucking time. So you were lying when you said you read them, then. Par for the course with you, I guess. > [@](#): > > Using acronyms without expanding them on first use is just bad writing. Using an acronym\* that’s already been explained\* in threads _you said you read_ shouldn’t need expansion. Unless you lied about reading them, of course. Which I’d expect - I knew you were stalking me regardless of the merits of me calling the race realists racists. This just proves it. > [@](#): > > The least of your flaws on display in this thread, though. Yeah, I’m not the one who thinks “Blacks are subhuman” isn’t racist, I’m so flawed…:rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Dibble sees racism everywhere, whether it’s happening or not. Except, hilariously enough, when he’s the one being racist. Something you could easily prove with a link to my racism…which you can’t, because you’re a liar. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/103 "2015-03-21T16:45:32Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This is a perfect example of why you have a fucked-up, warped-beyond-all-sense-of-recognition of what constitutes racism. Like I’ve already explained to your Klanmate: I don’t expect racists like you to have any sense of what is and isn’t racism. > [@](#): > > You’re a fucking idiot. You’re a dumb racist asshole. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/104 "2015-03-21T16:50:35Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So, these statements are all racist? > > Black people are incredibly creative. > > Black people are intelligent. > > Black people are more intelligent than others. > > Black people have higher IQs. > > Black people have a healthy outlook on life. > > Black people are good athletes. > > Black people have beautiful skin. Yes, of course they are. What, are you some kind of stupid idiot? Waitaminute. :smack: Belay my last. Yes, of course they are. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/105 "2015-03-21T17:01:37Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Define “subhuman” in a neutral and objective manner. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > “Non-human” could be a neutral scientific term, but “subhuman” implies a non-scientific value judgment. Emphasis added to **BG’s** post, but that’s it in a nutshell. Not sure how anyone can improve on that. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/106 "2015-03-21T17:25:46Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > We’ve _already_ established you have no fucking clue what constitutes racism (or reality). It’s right in the title of this thread, in fact. No, actually we haven’t. Claiming something that’s demonstrably false, as shown by me, in this thread and others, correctly saying what racism is, doesn’t count as establishing it. > [@](#): > > I think we can add “done” to the list of words _you_ don’t understand. No, I changed my mind when I saw that utter fucking idiocy you continued to post. > [@](#): > > _If_ you’d read those threads, you wouldn’t have to Google the term, as it came up all the fucking time. I’m not remembering every obscure acronym from threads started years ago. It doesn’t appear on the first or last page of the main thread (started before I joined this board) so it’s neither relevant to the OP or to the current debate. > [@](#): > > Yeah, I’m not the one who thinks “Blacks are subhuman” isn’t racist, I’m so flawed…:rolleyes: Correct. That you think any statement of fact can be racist shows you don’t actually know what _pre_judice is. Think about that _pre_ and what it means. > [@](#): > > Something you could easily prove with a link to my racism…which you can’t, because you’re a liar. Already done that. Got told off by a moderator for doing so, so I can’t do it again, but I don’t think the link was deleted so anyone who _really_ wants to can find it. Not that I’d call anyone else who makes such statements racist, of course, unless they had such a bizarre expanded definition of racism as you. But I feel quite comfortable judging you by the standards you judge others. Which is, basically, that you see absolutely fucking _everything_ through a lens of race, and yet call out others for even considering that race exists as a concept. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/107 "2015-03-21T17:31:30Z")
This thread has shown us that Steophan is a racists and that Smapti is mentally disturbed. This thread has also shown us that engineers are evil. I say we leave it there and go out and play. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/108 "2015-03-21T17:35:57Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > This thread has shown us that Steophan is a racists No, it hasn’t. Please show any post in this thread where I show or advocate prejudice of any sort, whether against race or otherwise. > [@](#): > > and that Smapti is mentally disturbed. And more bigotry against the mentally unwell. This thread isn’t going well for those who think they’re the “good guys”. No idea if **Smapti** is actually ill, but that’s irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/109 "2015-03-21T18:06:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Emphasis added to **BG’s** post, but that’s it in a nutshell. Not sure how anyone can improve on that. Seconded. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/110 "2015-03-21T18:15:29Z")
I’ve skimmed this thread and I think the point that to me is the most obvious has been missed. It’s correct that “Blacks” are subhuman is either true or false." Also, it’s correct that it’s indeed false. Therefore, if someone were to say it was true, that would be a racist statement. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/111 "2015-03-21T18:17:53Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Like I’ve already explained to your Klanmate: I don’t expect racists like you to have any sense of what is and isn’t racism.You’re a dumb racist asshole. You’ve claimed this before, but have not been able to substantiate it. You’re twisted mind sees racism everywhere. Even where there is none. The prefect example is that you classify **Ann Hedonia** as a racist for a post that had zero racism. If anything, she was comparing humans to dogs, to illustrate a point. But your fetid mind contorts that to RACISM! Of course, if you weren’t a weasel-brained hateful scumbag you’d realize that and apologize to **Ann Hedonia**. But you won’t. You dumb broken fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/112 "2015-03-21T18:22:45Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > I’ve skimmed this thread and I think the point that to me is the most obvious has been missed. It’s correct that “Blacks” are subhuman is either true or false." Also, it’s correct that it’s indeed false. Therefore, if someone were to say it was true, that would be a racist statement. The act of repeating the statement may well be racist, the statement by itself isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/113 "2015-03-21T18:26:24Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The act of repeating the statement may well be racist, the statement by itself isn’t. So words don’t mean anything unless you say them? That is absurd to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/114 "2015-03-21T18:28:49Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The act of repeating the statement may well be racist, the statement by itself isn’t. No. As has been pointed out, if you had used the term “non-human”, you’d be right. But “sub-human” has a strong subjective component. It is intrinsic to the term. You cannot claim that it is not there. It is clearly and necessarily racist. It would serve you well to realize this and modify your original statement. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/115 "2015-03-21T18:39:18Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The act of repeating the statement may well be racist, the statement by itself isn’t. You may be confusing subhuman with “a subspecies of human”. The latter is a scientific term that can be either true or false. The former is a non-scientific, _inherently_ _pejorative_ term. There is no getting around that unless you are not a native English speaker. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/116 "2015-03-21T18:45:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You may be confusing subhuman with “a subspecies of human”. … Like Oakland Raider fans right? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/117 "2015-03-21T18:46:27Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Like Oakland Raider fans right? Unfortunately, it’s 49ers fans now, too! ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/118 "2015-03-21T18:56:59Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > So words don’t mean anything unless you say them? That is absurd to say the least. They have no _effect_ until uttered, or written, or otherwise presented. The words themselves don’t discriminate, the person using them does. That’s the difference. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/119 "2015-03-21T18:59:08Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > They have no _effect_ until uttered, or written, or otherwise presented. The words themselves don’t discriminate, the person using them does. That’s the difference. How can there be a “statement” without it being uttered or written? Statements don’t exist in the abstract. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514/120 "2015-03-21T19:01:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > No. As has been pointed out, if you had used the term “non-human”, you’d be right. But “sub-human” has a strong subjective component. It is intrinsic to the term. You cannot claim that it is not there. It is clearly and necessarily racist. In which case, every use of the phrase is racist. That doesn’t change my position that the phrase itself, the actual words, are not inherently racist, because racism is a property of actions and by extension people, not of words. > [@](#): > > It would serve you well to realize this and modify your original statement. Using “non-human” would have avoided a sidetrack, but to my knowledge that’s not the historical claim that was used, and not the one referenced in the original thread. It wouldn’t change my argument, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-blacks-are-subhuman-is-either-true-or-false-and-by-itself-has-no-moral-component/715514.md?page=7)