# Steophan is an arrogant and amoral prick **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 21, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735 "2012-11-21T17:24:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/81 "2012-11-22T02:12:28Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > He could be the biggest moron on the internets and he’d still have an advantage over people who think it’s their public duty to defend such an obvious fuck up of a person as George Zimmerman. Ah, so we are making sweeping character assumptions now based on the knowledge of a few differing traits? Profile much? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Redbrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Redbrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redbrow)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/82 "2012-11-22T02:14:20Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > LOL. > > Even a well known [criminal justice professor](http://thelastword.msnbc.com/_news/2012/03/22/10816361-top-three-mistakes-by-sanford-police?lite) went on National TV and said point by point how SPD fucked up. They could have arrested Zimmerman if they wanted. They could have confiscated his weapon immediately if they wanted. Well known criminal justice professor? I never heard of the guy or even his school. But hey, if you are going to appeal to authority, why not go with a _real_ well known professor like Alan Dershowitz. Dershowitz argued that Zimmerman was technically arrested that night. And of course, THEY DID IMMEDIATELY CONFISCATE HIS WEAPON, MORON!:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/83 "2012-11-22T04:40:36Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > So… > > We are talking about the Trayvon Martin case… Case? It’s more like a running joke by this point. If you’re the poor sod being dragged along with it, though, I’m sure it’s not very funny. > [@](#): > > He vehemently feels Zimmerman was correct in the actions he took–he sees no inconsistencies in Zimmerman’s story and he sees the law allowing him to walk. He sees nothing wrong with ANY of the actions Zimmerman took. He feels Zimmerman is being unjustly treated. Well, if the law says the dude’s correct in his actions, then regardless of what your personal morality, your personal opinion, or your what your daydreams/nightmares/Ouija Board tells you, then, legally, yes, the dude’s being unjustly treated. > [@](#): > > I vehemently disagree with him on all counts. Must be the opinions, then. I’m not sure it’s time to rule out that board thing, though. > [@](#): > > Things boiled over yesterday–this guy called me a “moral coward” because I apparently don’t have the guts to see Zimmerman was correct. [Here is the link.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15718431&postcount=7981) > > If you want more background, read the last few pages before the comment. > > We have been going back and forth for the last month. In a thread that long, with the posting rate, nah, not interested in that. That’d be another instance of TLDR. > [@](#): > > So because I don’t support Zimmerman, I am a moral coward. Seems from the statements in this thread that you do, actually, appear to want the man punished for other than what he was actually accused of. Call me silly, but that’s a pretty damn slimy thing to do and sure ranks down there with moral coward in my book. And I didn’t need a Ouija Board to clue me into that. > [@](#): > > **This guy isn’t even from the US and is telling me, who has served on a jury, what the law is and how the court systems work.** This might come as a surprise to you, but the US isn’t the only place in the world with the kind of legal system it has. There’s England, for one. Oh, and then there’s Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and a few other countries. Those countries even have.._gasp!_…lawyers and…who would’ve thought it?..juries! > [@](#): > > The nerve of these people. On, no, you didn’t?! > [@](#): > > Also, that thread seems to have become a base for people to express their ill-feelings and stereotypes about African-Americans > > References have been made to: > > “gangsta culture” (Whatever the fuck that means) > superior black athletic ability > Al Sharpton > black music/culture > black crime > > Bullshit terms (that I usually hear floated around by right-wing bigots) are being used like “race-bait” and other compound terms that would make George Orwell proud. Just for fun, since that thread is nigh onto a couple of hundred pages, why don’t you link to a time or two of such references? I can readily see why there’s a reference to that jackass Sharpton, though. He’s the very last person I’d want on my side in a case, especially one “tried in the court of public opinion.” > [@](#): > > I am tired of these people posting their bullshit over the internet for all to see. But your’s is fair game, right? By the way, who was it that implied their service on a jury made them somewhat knowledgeable on the law? I haven’t actually served on a jury, but legal work certainly was part of my job for 19 years. Your posts on the subject of law and evidence really don’t make me sanguine about your grasp of legal matters. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/84 "2012-11-22T04:48:35Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Oh. Let me know when it’s made into a movie; I’ll be sure not to watch it. > > But since I clicked this thread unsuspectingly, let me _stand my ground_ rather than go away cowardly. 😉 > > Suppose Zimmerman were the black man, and Martin were a young white Republican. Does anyone imagine, for a single second, that Shodan and his ilk wouldn’t reverse their positions? > > _“The true hypocrite is the one who ceases to perceive his deception, the one who lies with sincerity.”_ – André Gide I pitted those guys for that like 6 months ago. What makes it worse is that I don’t even think they KNOW it. They really don’t seem to have the imagination to understand that their viewpoint on this is mostly racially-based. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/85 "2012-11-22T05:36:18Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > No, you haven’t a clue. Taking that snippet from the Pit and dumping it, along with its inappropriate language, into IMHO without a link IS taking it out of context. Without the context of the Pit, it comes across as rude, inappropriate, and in violation of the forum rules. > > Stop being so butthurt that you got busted sneaking a Pit quote into another thread. You sure are a lot of bluster, deceit, and obfuscation, but not a lot of content. 😉 well excuse me…again, I am new here and was not aware of that. That I told the moderator. Take some Midol. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/86 "2012-11-22T05:43:13Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > 1. **Well, if the law says the dude’s correct in his actions, then regardless of what your personal morality, your personal opinion, or your what your daydreams/nightmares/Ouija Board tells you, then, legally, yes, the dude’s being unjustly treated.** > > 2. Seems from the statements in this thread that you do, actually, appear to want the man punished for other than what he was actually accused of. Call me silly, but that’s a pretty damn slimy thing to do and sure ranks down there with moral coward in my book. And I didn’t need a Ouija Board to clue me into that. 1. If…that’s the key here. The law does not say that IMO. It’s not just me: several have chimed in on this, including actual lawyers. That’s where this comes in–it’s not about my “feelings” as you put it. And no, he’s not being unjustly treated IMO. 1. No no no. Punished for other?? No, I want him punished for EXACTLY what he is accused of. I am actually willing to settle for LESS than what he is being charged with. I don’t see how that’s moral cowardliness…if so, than I need to know how you define morals. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/87 "2012-11-22T05:50:57Z")
And the jury reference has to do with the good poster telling me I know nothing about the criminal justice system–not to make an insult. It was part of my larger point that a jury can make determinations about credibility–they can say that this doesn’t add up and as a result\_\_\_\_\_. They are allowed to do that. They are allowed to say I don’t believe this and so on… So very well some of the things that the OP said can be cast aside by the jury as rubbish. We were recently taking about another SYG case in Florida where a guy shot someone…the jury looked at everything and said that the guy shot someone basically over a skateboard (Dooley case). They didn’t buy his “I feared for my life BS” and sent him to prison. ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/88 "2012-11-22T07:24:02Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > 1. If…that’s the key here. The law does not say that IMO. It’s not just me: several have chimed in on this, including actual lawyers. > > That’s where this comes in–it’s not about my “feelings” as you put it. > > And no, he’s not being unjustly treated IMO. > > 1. No no no. Punished for other?? No, I want him punished for EXACTLY what he is accused of. > I am actually willing to settle for LESS than what he is being charged with. I don’t see how that’s moral cowardliness…if so, than I need to know how you define morals. Re 1, as for lawyers backing up your point, not that I’m aware of. For the love of Og just take this shit back to that monstrosity of an IMHO thread. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/89 "2012-11-22T08:50:14Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > And the jury reference has to do with the good poster telling me I know nothing about the criminal justice system–not to make an insult. That’s pure bullshit. You’re either lying or too stupid to realize how much bullshit it is. > [@](#): > > It was part of my larger point that a jury can make determinations about credibility–they can say that this doesn’t add up and as a result\_\_\_\_\_. They are allowed to do that. They are allowed to say I don’t believe this and so on… Have you ever heard this? “The jury is the tryer of fact. The judge is the determiner of the law.” > [@](#): > > So very well some of the things that the OP said can be cast aside by the jury as rubbish. Do you mean the OP of the thread to which you linked? That would be Stoid. Quite a lot of what Stoid posts is rubbish. > [@](#): > > We were recently taking about another SYG case in Florida where a guy shot someone…the jury looked at everything and said that the guy shot someone basically over a skateboard (Dooley case). They didn’t buy his “I feared for my life BS” and sent him to prison. Here’s a concept: Two different cases can have two different outcomes because they are, get this, different. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/90 "2012-11-22T09:48:24Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > We were recently taking about another SYG case in Florida where a guy shot someone…the jury looked at everything and said that the guy shot someone basically over a skateboard (Dooley case). They didn’t buy his “I feared for my life BS” and sent him to prison. The jury hasn’t sent him to prison, as they don’t have that authority, and Dooley is currently a free man. I’d have thought a legal expert like you would know that. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/91 "2012-11-22T12:00:41Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Ah, so we are making sweeping character assumptions now based on the knowledge of a few differing traits? Profile much? 😃 It’s a bad habit, I know, but it’s not compounded by me carrying a gun that I forget I’m carrying, while chasing after people I have a vague suspicion might be criminals. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/92 "2012-11-22T14:09:35Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > 1.That’s pure bullshit. You’re either lying or too stupid to realize how much bullshit it is. > > 2.Have you ever heard this? “The jury is the tryer of fact. The judge is the determiner of the law.” > > 3.Do you mean the OP of the thread to which you linked? That would be Stoid. Quite a lot of what Stoid posts is rubbish. > > 4.Here’s a concept: Two different cases can have two different outcomes because they are, get this, different. What the fuck is wrong with some of these people here? 1. Because you say so? Lying or stupid? Read the fucking thread yourself instead of talking out of your ass. It’s there. 2. And?? 3. Not funny. 4. Here’s a concept: there are similarities between them as well that are instructive. It’s not just me looking at this case and comparing it–many others have. Please take a fucking chill pill, and read before you comment–or are you one of those blind right-wing bigots? In that case, I fully understand why you feel the way you do. Have a Happy thanksgiving. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/93 "2012-11-22T14:11:48Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > Re 1, as for lawyers backing up your point, not that I’m aware of. > > For the love of Og just take this shit back to that monstrosity of an IMHO thread. On the thread, yes, actually, if you read it. Of course you’re not aware of it: you haven’t read it. yet you’re comfortable enough to make a comment like this? The Pit is here for a reason. I am not taking anything back anywhere. Take your shit the hell away from here, whoever the hell you are. Have a happy thanksgiving. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/94 "2012-11-22T14:17:05Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The jury hasn’t sent him to prison, as they don’t have that authority, and Dooley is currently a free man. I’d have thought a legal expert like you would know that. Go away you prick. Have a happy thanksgiving. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/95 "2012-11-22T14:57:03Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Go away you prick. > > Have a happy thanksgiving. If you want me to go away, starting a thread about me, with my name in the title, is an absolutely pathetic way of accomplishing it. Go fuck a turkey. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/96 "2012-11-22T15:05:06Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > What the fuck is wrong with some of these people here? Nothing wrong with me, bucko. You, on the other hand, are flaming fuckwit. > [@](#): > > 1. Because you say so? Lying or stupid? Read the fucking thread yourself instead of talking out of your ass. It’s there. Well over one hundred pages? Nah. You say something’s in there, get off your lazy ass and prove it. Oops, I forgot that you’re not conversant with the concept of proof. > [@](#): > > 1. And?? How the heck can you get whooshed by something flying at eye level? Let me lay it out for the fuckwits present: even if you happened to have served on a jury, that doesn’t make you the judge of the law. It makes you the determiner of what happened. > [@](#): > > 1. Not funny. Damn. You got one right. It wasn’t posted in jest. The OP of the IMHO thread is Stoid. Quite a lot of what Stoid posts is rubbish. > [@](#): > > 1. Here’s a concept: there are similarities between them as well that are instructive. It’s not just me looking at this case and comparing it–many others have. Yes, there are similarities. Just because they happen to have similarities doesn’t mean that they’ll have the same result. > [@](#): > > Please take a fucking chill pill, and read before you comment–or are you one of those blind right-wing bigots? In that case, I fully understand why you feel the way you do. You don’t know a damn thing about why or even how I feel about the case. I’m not a bigot at all, you jackass. > [@](#): > > Have a Happy thanksgiving. You’re over a month late. Thanksgiving here was way back in September this year. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/97 "2012-11-22T15:16:40Z")
By the way, your cohort is rapidly racking up mod warnings. I’ll laugh myself silly, although I won’t be surprised at all, that when he’s banned you get sent packing along with him. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/98 "2012-11-22T17:34:37Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > What the fuck is wrong with some of these people here? For someone who acts so concerned about bigotry, stereotyping, and profiling you sure use the sweeping generalization “these people” a lot. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/99 "2012-11-22T17:43:33Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > By the way, your cohort is rapidly racking up mod warnings. I’ll laugh myself silly, although I won’t be surprised at all, that when he’s banned you get sent packing along with him. Is there a procedure on this board for having such decisions looked at in a transparent manner? ps. And thanks for nailing your colours firmly to your mast. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/100 "2012-11-22T17:46:32Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Is there a procedure on this board for having such decisions looked at in a transparent manner? Email the mod in question, or raise it on ATMB. You would need a good argument to get a warning reversed as they are generally discussed by a number of Mods (I understand) before they are issued. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735.md?page=6)