# Steophan is an arrogant and amoral prick **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 21, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735 "2012-11-21T17:24:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/161 "2012-11-25T05:32:28Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > If Z is making an affirmative defence he “may be exonerated if he can demonstrate that he had an honest and reasonable belief that another’s use of force was unlawful and that the defendant’s conduct was necessary to protect himself.” > > Surely part of that demonstration should include that he was fit to be carrying a gun that night? > > . You appear to be quoting the [Wikipedia page on affirmative defenses.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_defense) That page, in turn, is using a Michigan statute as an example. Neither the paragraph you quote nor the Michigan law is uses for reference accurately captures the law of the state of Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/162 "2012-11-25T06:28:56Z")
Hahahaha!! “Go fuck a turkey.” 😃 Seriously, peeps, I’ve perused the IMHO thread, check on the updates… All I know is Zimmerman should’ve stayed in his vehicle. Then no case. Since he DIDN’T, well, with all the bullshit racist crap thrown into this by both sides, I’m expecting a guilty verdict of Manslaughter 2, time served. I have NO WAY of seeing any fact that may decide this case conclusively. What did Trayvon/Zimmerman really say or do when they met? No clue. If Martin just got injured in this mess and was alive, it’d be over in a month. Thing is, none of you guys do either and the bickering over this is up there with “I KNOW why pigeons really bob their heads,” or “I KNOW it was the 7th gunman on the Grassy Knoll!” That’s what sucks, we’re never going to know what the fuck really went down. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/163 "2012-11-25T11:06:41Z")
It’s not as dumb a thing to be querying as “Why do pigeon’s heads bob?” — Answer: Who gives a flying fuck?, and it’s far less complex than “Who killed JFK?” If you’re not interested in discussing the ins and outs and the implications of this case, there is nobody forcing you to pay attention, or take part. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/164 "2012-11-25T13:09:19Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > It’s not as dumb a thing to be querying as “Why do pigeon’s heads bob?” — Answer: Who gives a flying fuck?, and it’s far less complex than “Who killed JFK?” > > If you’re not interested in discussing the ins and outs and the implications of this case, there is nobody forcing you to pay attention, or take part. Wait, what? You seriously think “Who shot JFK” is complex? That’s a hoot right there. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/165 "2012-11-25T13:13:28Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Wait, what? You seriously think “Who shot JFK” is complex? That’s a hoot right there. Yeah, that Warren Commission report was done on the back of a napkin, wasn’t it… oh wait… Pity you weren’t around to advise them back then. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/166 "2012-11-25T14:09:27Z")
No, it wasn’t. Just for fun, whip out something that even vaguely resembles actual science to prove that Oswald didn’t kill Kennedy all by his lonesome. By actual science, of course I mean stuff that is what real scientists accept as science, not whacked out nutjob conspiracy theorists pretend is science. Before you do that, perhaps you could provide some evidence from your posts on this board that you have ever known WTF you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/167 "2012-11-25T14:18:49Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > No, it wasn’t. Just for fun, whip out something that even vaguely resembles actual science to prove that Oswald didn’t kill Kennedy all by his lonesome. By actual science, of course I mean stuff that is what real scientists accept as science, not whacked out nutjob conspiracy theorists pretend is science. Nope. Not in the least interested. Bigger fish to fry, fella. > [@Monty](#): > > Before you do that, perhaps you could provide some evidence from your posts on this board that you have ever known WTF you’re talking about. I’ve corrected a few errant posters over in the Zimbo v Trayvon trainwreck. I don’t need to prove anything to you though, so you can go piss up a rope if you want links. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/168 "2012-11-25T15:26:58Z")
Dimmy is not at all shy about speaking up for himself, but I think there’s a miscommunication here. He says the Kennedy assassination issue is not complex. Other posters seem to take that to mean that he believes it wasn’t Oswald acting alone. I just read the comment to mean that the issue itself was not trivial – that while the answer is indeed that Oswald acted alone, the voluminous Warren Commission report proves by its very length that conclusively establishing that truth was a complex task. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/169 "2012-11-25T18:03:16Z")
No. It was never complicated. But the appearance of an exhaustive investigation was as necessary as the fact. If they had simply sat down for several hours and reviewed the known facts and come to the sensible conclusion, it would have succeeded in the first task, findings of truth. But not in the second task, assurance of the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/170 "2012-11-25T18:55:34Z")
I’m mildly surprised **dimmy** was banned before **bete**. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/171 "2012-11-25T19:15:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If they had simply sat down for several hours and reviewed the known facts and come to the sensible conclusion, it would have succeeded in the first task, findings of truth. But not in the second task, assurance of the truth. Absolutely, “public confidence in the result” was necessary. Surprising \*\*Bricker \*\*doesn’t see that. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/172 "2012-11-25T20:00:29Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m mildly surprised **dimmy** was banned before **bete**. Not me. Obvious troll who played all sides of an argument in order to get a rise out of people. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/173 "2012-11-25T21:47:04Z")
Okay then, it’s more like, “Yellow is the best color! How can you not take mustard and puce into consideration when deciding??!?!?” This trial (if there ever is one) is not going to end like everyone wants and the “facts” and “evidence” some people are harping on isn’t going to show up in trial. Hey, I’d love to see Z convicted of murder for this, won’t happen. What happened between these two will always be a mystery. I’m not the type to sympathize with someone who uses a gun in this manner-- as a neighborhood watchman (with a superhero complex)-- especially when they’re TOLD not to engage on their situation. As far as the “details” I’m supposed to be aware of, I’ve followed the case, the IMHO thread, and this pitting thread. I’m still saying, maybe even betting, on Man 2, time served. And, yes, I understand Z isn’t charged with manslaughter… yet. With public pressure, eventually the jury might be given the option to rule on the lesser charge. I think Bricker and others may have pointed out that FL law allows such a situation. If so, a guilty verdict is given, the SYG law still stands and a bogus legal closure will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735/174 "2012-11-26T16:01:24Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No. It was never complicated. But the appearance of an exhaustive investigation was as necessary as the fact. If they had simply sat down for several hours and reviewed the known facts and come to the sensible conclusion, it would have succeeded in the first task, findings of truth. But not in the second task, assurance of the truth. You may have a point, but I don’t agree completely. Only half the witnesses in Dealy Plaza reported the shots coming from the book depositiry; a third identified the knoll as the source. There was substantial disagreement about the number of shots fired as well. And of course, Oswald’s death at the hands of Jack Ruby lends a mysterious element as well. Of course, when examined in detail, these issues are cleared up – but I don’t agree that a mere several hours would do the trick. I absolutely agree you’re on the money, though, when you point out that assurance of the truth requires much more time and detail. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steophan-is-an-arrogant-and-amoral-prick/641735.md?page=8)