# Steorn now offers an explanation of how its "Orbo" perpetual-motion machine works **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 2, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765 "2010-04-02T19:22:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/1 "2010-04-02T19:22:49Z")
No, [Steorn](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steorn) still has never made a successful, verified public demonstration of Orbo. But, its [website](http://www.steorn.com/orbo/technology/) now offers an explanation, at least in very general terms, of how it works: > [@](#): > > **How Orbo Technology Works** > > Orbo is based upon time variant magnetic interactions, i.e. magnetic interactions whose efficiency varies as a function of transaction timeframes. > > It is this variation of energy exchanged as a function of transaction time frame that lies at the heart of Orbo technology, and its ability to contravene the principle of the conservation of energy. Why? Conservation of energy requires that the total energy exchanged using interactions are invariant in time. This principle of time invariance is enshrined in Noether’s Theorem. > > The time variant nature of Orbo interactions can be engineered using two basic techniques. The first technique utilizes a method of controlling the response time of magnetic materials to make them time variant. This is achieved by controlling the MH position of materials during permanent magnetic interactions. > > The second technique decouples the Counter Electromotive Force (CEMF) from torque for electromagnetic interactions. This decoupling of CEMF allows time variant magnetic interactions in electromagnetic systems. 😕 Ooooookaaaaay. Dopers knowledgeable of physics: Does this mean anything to you? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/2 "2010-04-02T20:16:25Z")
Yes, it makes a little sense. Conservation of energy is a consequence of the fact that the laws of physics don’t change over time. Specifically, an interaction will conserve energy if it’s impossible to tell if it is running forward or backward in time. Physicists call this time-invariant symmetry. For a simple example where energy is conserved, think of a perfectly elastic ball bouncing off a sidewalk–running a video of it forward or backwards looks the same. For a simple example where energy is not conserved, think of a ball of clay hitting the sidewalk–that video has a clear temporal direction. Those are rather macroscopic examples. If we look at the fundamental forces of physics, we find that they are all time-invariant. Interactions that at a macroscopic level look they are losing energy are merely shunting it around via other interactions. Unless someone is proposing that there is a new fundamental force (or our understanding of an existing one is wrong), any interaction they are proposing is composed of the time-invariant forces we know are energy-conserving. They claim they’ve broken the time-invariant symmetry of the electromagnetic force. Since quantum electrodynamics is probably the most well-tested theory in human science, I find their claim extremely extraordinary. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/3 "2010-04-02T21:03:52Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > They claim they’ve broken the time-invariant symmetry of the electromagnetic force. Since quantum electrodynamics is probably the most well-tested theory in human science, I find their claim extremely extraordinary. Wow, that is an impressively polite way to say it. I’m afraid my phrasing would have included something like “lying scumbag sacks of donkey droppings.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/4 "2010-04-02T22:21:21Z")
Free advice. DON’T INVEST A PENNY IN THIS!!! There.! I’ve saved you potentialy tons of money. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/5 "2010-04-02T22:25:05Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > Free advice. DON’T INVEST A PENNY IN THIS!!! > > There.! I’ve saved you potentialy tons of money. See? Sometimes the Universe **does** give you something for nothing! Suck it, Second Law of Thermodynamics! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/6 "2010-04-02T22:38:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Orbo is based upon time variant magnetic interactions, i.e. magnetic interactions whose efficiency varies as a function of transaction timeframes. As soon as I read that, it made me think of [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXW0bx_Ooq4) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/7 "2010-04-02T22:40:03Z")
I used to think there was a possiblity that they were sincere, but mistaken. I don’t think that any more - but I don’t think it’s a scam either - I think it’s just a way of drawing attention to their company, which happens to be in the business of making and selling electronic test equipment (that operates under the normal laws of physics). It’s an oblique advertising campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/8 "2010-04-02T23:07:50Z")
Just so long as they don’t ask for any investment money. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Doctor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/9 "2010-04-02T23:35:17Z")
[QUOTE=OrboIdiots] How Orbo Technology Works Orbo is based upon time variant magnetic interactions, i.e. magnetic interactions whose efficiency varies as a function of transaction timeframes. It is this variation of energy exchanged as a function of transaction time frame that lies at the heart of Orbo technology, and its ability to contravene the principle of the conservation of energy. Why? Conservation of energy requires that the total energy exchanged using interactions are invariant in time. This principle of time invariance is enshrined in Noether’s Theorem. The time variant nature of Orbo interactions can be engineered using two basic techniques. The first technique utilizes a method of controlling the response time of magnetic materials to make them time variant. This is achieved by controlling the MH position of materials during permanent magnetic interactions. The second technique decouples the Counter Electromotive Force (CEMF) from torque for electromagnetic interactions. This decoupling of CEMF allows time variant magnetic interactions in electromagnetic systems. [/QUOTE] Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!! That is some of the funniest bullshit I have read in a long time. “Watch me pull this rabbit out of my hat!” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/10 "2010-04-02T23:52:16Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > For a simple example where energy is conserved, think of a perfectly elastic ball bouncing off a sidewalk–running a video of it forward or backwards looks the same. For a simple example where energy is not conserved, think of a ball of clay hitting the sidewalk–that video has a clear temporal direction. Uhhhhh certainly energy is conserved in both of those examples even though teh second isn’t reversible. ---
**Author:** ![BarryB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BarryB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarryB)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/11 "2010-04-03T01:37:22Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I used to think there was a possiblity that they were sincere, but mistaken. I don’t think that any more - but I don’t think it’s a scam either - I think it’s just a way of drawing attention to their company, which happens to be in the business of making and selling electronic test equipment (that operates under the normal laws of physics). It’s an oblique advertising campaign. It’s a scam. It has always been a scam. They have even created the “The Steorn Knowledge Development Base” ([Steorn - Informasi Teknologi Terkini dan Terbaru](http://www.steorn.com/skdb/)), charging €419.00 a year for access to it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/12 "2010-04-03T02:37:52Z")
It’s really quite simple. We construct a black hole with the Hadron collider and then feed our trash into it. Put a turbine wheel in the pathway and make power off our trash. Of course we use to do that with incinerators but you have to keep up with the times. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/13 "2010-04-03T07:09:16Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I used to think there was a possiblity that they were sincere, but mistaken. I don’t think that any more - but I don’t think it’s a scam either - I think it’s just a way of drawing attention to their company, which happens to be in the business of making and selling electronic test equipment (that operates under the normal laws of physics). It’s an oblique advertising campaign. They raised over [8m Euros](http://www.tribune.ie/article/2008/aug/10/free-energy-firm-generated-8m-in-funding/)from the gullible using Orbo. That’s a hellava unintended side benefit if that’s all it was. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/14 "2010-04-03T07:45:49Z")
I stand corrected on that one then. It’s a scam. They’re basically claiming that Lenz’s Law is really _Lenz’s Suggestion_, aren’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/15 "2010-04-03T21:15:35Z")
Trying to read some kind of meaning into their explanation, their claim isn’t even a new one. Most of the permanent magnet perpetual motor attempts/claims out there (and there are many) work on the notion that you can get magnets to repel one another, but can somehow avoid experiencing that repulsion when you bring them together initially. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/16 "2010-04-03T21:28:30Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Uhhhhh certainly energy is conserved in both of those examples even though teh second isn’t reversible. I think he meant that the energy of the “system that is the ball or the clay”. The ball is perfectly elastic, and so no energy is lost. The clay converts all its kinetic energy to heat. Energy, in this case, being the sum of the potential and kinetic energy. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/17 "2010-04-03T21:30:23Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > Free advice. DON’T INVEST A PENNY IN THIS!!! > > There.! I’ve saved you potentialy tons of money. Technically, you’ve only saved me a penny. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/18 "2010-04-03T22:48:06Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Uhhhhh certainly energy is conserved in both of those examples even though teh second isn’t reversible. As **Pleonast** went on to explain. But yeah, that’s a slightly careless elision of the first two laws of thermodynamics there. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/19 "2010-04-03T23:22:56Z")
I don׳t get it. Where is the energy supposedly coming from? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765/20 "2010-04-03T23:51:57Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I don׳t get it. Where is the energy supposedly coming from? Fluidic space. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steorn-now-offers-an-explanation-of-how-its-orbo-perpetual-motion-machine-works/534765.md?page=2)