# Stephen Coughlin Pentagon Specialist on Islamic Law sacked **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 5, 2008, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375 "2008-01-05T04:57:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/1 "2008-01-05T04:57:32Z")
[http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20080104/NATION04/410150204/10](http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20080104/NATION04/410150204/10) > [@](#): > > Stephen Coughlin, the Pentagon specialist on Islamic law and Islamist extremism, has been fired from his position on the military’s Joint Staff. The action followed a report in this space last week revealing opposition to his work for the military by pro-Muslim officials within the office of Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England. > > Mr. Coughlin was notified this week that his contract with the Joint Staff will end in March, effectively halting the career of one of the U.S. government’s most important figures in analyzing the nature of extremism and ultimately preparing to wage ideological war against it. > > He had run afoul of a key aide to Mr. England, Hasham Islam, who confronted Mr. Coughlin during a meeting several weeks ago when Mr. Islam sought to have Mr. Coughlin soften his views on Islamist extremism. > > Mr. Coughlin was accused directly by Mr. Islam of being a Christian zealot or extremist “with a pen,” according to defense officials. Mr. Coughlin appears to have become one of the first casualties in the war of ideas with Islamism. > > The officials said Mr. Coughlin was let go because he had become “too hot” or controversial within the Pentagon. What is the significance of this? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/2 "2008-01-05T05:06:22Z")
Its a conspiracy, of course! More tea? ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/3 "2008-01-05T05:19:30Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] What is the significance of this? [/QUOTE] Who can tell? The article was obviously a right-wing hack job. I searched on the internet for other sources, and was able to find, in addition to other right-wing hack jobs, several left-wing hack jobs. I cannot say any light was shed on the issue (although much heat was generated). ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/4 "2008-01-05T05:25:26Z")
If there’s a cabal of pro-muslim officals in the pentagon, they’re running the least effective conspiracy ever. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/5 "2008-01-05T05:27:34Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous] If there’s a cabal of pro-muslim officals in the pentagon, they’re running the least effective conspiracy ever. [/QUOTE] I don’t know about that. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar and Dubai seem to be profitting rather handsomely from their relationship with the United States. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/6 "2008-01-05T05:34:30Z")
That wasn’t a conspiracy, that was an auction. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/7 "2008-01-05T05:35:52Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] I don’t know about that. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar and Dubai seem to be profitting rather handsomely from their relationship with the United States. [/QUOTE] Yea, but the villians in this conspiracy are supposed to be islamic extremists like the Muslim Brotherhood. Those groups hate the pro-western gov’t of the countries you mentioned and thier relationship with the US. So again, least effective conspiracy ever. What do they send in their reports to Bin Ladin? “Well, we’ve failed to stop the recent invasions of two muslim countries, large increases of US troops into the ME or the recent sales of weapons to the Israelis and pro-western ME gov’ts, but we did totally get this one guy fired.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/8 "2008-01-05T05:38:26Z")
Yeah! If they were real friends of America, like Israel, they wouldn’t do things all sneak like. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/9 "2008-01-05T05:42:49Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous] Yea, but the villians in this conspiracy are supposed to be islamic extremists like the Muslim Brotherhood. Those groups hate the pro-western gov’t of the countries you mentioned and thier relationship with the US. [/quote] I think the issue is a smidge more complicated than that. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/10 "2008-01-05T05:50:23Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] I don’t know about that. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar and Dubai seem to be profitting rather handsomely from their relationship with the United States. [/QUOTE] Not because they are Muslim, though. Rather in spite of the fact that they are Muslim. They have something we can’t survive without. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/11 "2008-01-05T06:00:58Z")
Are you seriously suggesting that somehow Muslim groups are somehow controlling or directing US policy, and that this Coughlin guy is a casualty of that? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/12 "2008-01-05T06:07:08Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] They have something we can’t survive without. [/QUOTE] What’s that? Wisdom? Love? Hope? Determination? I can’t imagine what you are talking about… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/13 "2008-01-05T06:13:29Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous] What do they send in their reports to Bin Ladin? “Well, we’ve failed to stop the recent invasions of two muslim countries, large increases of US troops into the ME or the recent sales of weapons to the Israelis and pro-western ME gov’ts, but we did totally get this one guy fired.” [/QUOTE] Most of those are things they would approve of. America running wild in the ME slaughtering Muslims is great propaganda, as is support for the Israelis. As for what really happened, who knows ? Perhaps some major scandal involving him is likely to break ( and maybe it will involve women this time, even ), or perhaps he made the mistake of advocating paying attention to reality. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/14 "2008-01-05T06:18:27Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] What’s that? Wisdom? Love? Hope? Determination? I can’t imagine what you are talking about… [/QUOTE] Camel racing. We, as a nation, are powerless without it. Anyhow, **mswas** , quit being so coy. What is your take on it? You seem to have an opinion, which you are hiding under your bushel basket. Share! ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/15 "2008-01-06T04:30:35Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] Camel racing. We, as a nation, are powerless without it. Anyhow, **mswas** , quit being so coy. What is your take on it? You seem to have an opinion, which you are hiding under your bushel basket. Share! [/QUOTE] Well I have an interest in it. An amateur interest in Espionage. I don’t really have a position. I have seen people who claim to have intelligence experience who believe that he was some sort of casualty of the nature proposed in the article. I personally don’t know. I think it would be naive to assume that all Muslims working in the government have no ties to Terrorism. We’re at war, in another cycle of a war that’s been going on for more than a thousand years. The Crusades developed a lot of modern ideas, one of those was an entrenched system of espionage. I would assume that the major portion of the war on terror is being fought within the intelligence apparati the world over, like it was during the Cold War. We have politicians who have heavy financial ties to Muslim rulers across the Middle-East. So, I don’t have a specific opinion about this scenario, but I am fascinated with the idea of such covert conflicts, which in my opinion must be occurring on some level. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/16 "2008-01-06T05:45:24Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] which in my opinion must be occurring on some level. [/QUOTE] Just because? Given the rather lackluster performance of our own intelligence services in infiltrating and gathering intelligence on or altering mildly attractive targets, like oh say, Saddam Hussein’s government, what makes you so sure that Bahrain’s got such an awesome team of crack spooks that are using their secret cabal of Muslim power, to, ah, fire government lawyers? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/17 "2008-01-06T06:00:50Z")
You never expect the Bahrain Secret Intelligence Agency ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/18 "2008-01-06T07:03:51Z")
I finbd it interesting that every single reference to Coughlin in the first ten pages of a Google Search on his name (eliminating the musician by the same name) produces not one news story involing him. We have one Op-Ed pice in the Moony Washignton Times and several hundred blog spots quoting, plagiarizing, or otherwise building on that one Op-Ed piece, but not a single news story–not even from the Washington Times. I suspect a non-story with manufactured rage (and a paucity of facts) from some drinking buddy of Coughlin. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/19 "2008-01-06T07:57:08Z")
[QUOTE=threemae] Just because? Given the rather lackluster performance of our own intelligence services in infiltrating and gathering intelligence on or altering mildly attractive targets, like oh say, Saddam Hussein’s government, what makes you so sure that Bahrain’s got such an awesome team of crack spooks that are using their secret cabal of Muslim power, to, ah, fire government lawyers? [/QUOTE] Again, it’s a smidge more complicated than that. To put it simply. Yes I do think it’s possible that this Muslim assistant has divided loyalties. It’s not about crack intelligence teams, it’s about people and where their loyalties lie. Yes, I do think that some people in the intelligence apparatus are likely selling info across enemy lines. I would be more shocked if we had 100% operational security than I would be if I heard that it was occurring. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375/20 "2008-01-06T08:36:13Z")
[http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2008/01/05/eaton-agonistes-redux/](http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2008/01/05/eaton-agonistes-redux/) > [@](#): > > Bill Gertz, Washington Times national security columnist, reports (1/4/08) that the Pentagon has fired Stephen Coughlin, its most knowledgeable specialist on Islamic Law, and jihad terrorism. As Gertz observed aptly, the Pentagon thus ended the career of its most effective analyst attempting to prepare the military to wage ideological war against jihadism. > > This past September, 2007, I lectured with Mr. Coughlin, a US Army Reserves Major, at The Naval War College, and witnessed his brilliant, tour de force presentation which elucidated the reliance of contemporary jihadism on Islamic Law. Coughlin demonstrated meticulously that “Jihad fi Sabil Allah”—“Jihad in the cause of Allah,” is the animating principle which underlies the threat of global jihad terrorism, and how this understanding should form the basis for rational, effective threat development assessment, and war planning. > > That Coughlin’s analyses would even be considered “controversial,” or worse still lead eventually to his firing—perhaps, as Gertz strongly suggests, at the behest of a Muslim aide, Hesham Islam, within the office of Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England—is pathognomonic of the intellectual and moral rot plaguing our efforts to combat global jihadism. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephen-coughlin-pentagon-specialist-on-islamic-law-sacked/432375.md?page=2)