# Stephon Clark autopsy disputes police account (wounds indicate he was shot in the back) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 30, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephon-clark-autopsy-disputes-police-account-wounds-indicate-he-was-shot-in-the-back/811490 "2018-03-30T21:31:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephon-clark-autopsy-disputes-police-account-wounds-indicate-he-was-shot-in-the-back/811490/101 "2018-04-05T20:29:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Their after-incident report stated that before being shot Clark extended an object in front of him and moved towards the officers, and then “fearing for their safety”, they opened fire. > > It seems very dfficult to reconcile this with the autopsy results of 7 shots in the back, 1 in the front, with the 1 in the front while he was lying prone. I just spent the last few minutes watching the helicopter video over and over again. And, while it’s partially obscured by the overhang (that I guess is the porch), it seems very clear to me that Clark is moving towards the officers at the time of the first muzzle flash (can’t see his hands). Am I missing something? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephon-clark-autopsy-disputes-police-account-wounds-indicate-he-was-shot-in-the-back/811490/102 "2018-04-05T20:31:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do you mean like [this case?](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/graphic-video-shows-police-killing-of-unarmed-man-in-arizona.html), where the officer was acquitted after emptying his gun into someone crawling on his hands and knees, _as he was told to do so by that same officer_. I certainly didn’t think that incident was morally justified, but Brailsford (who, incidentally, did not “empty his gun”) was acquitted. I hope Shaver’s family sues him and wins. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephon-clark-autopsy-disputes-police-account-wounds-indicate-he-was-shot-in-the-back/811490/103 "2018-04-05T20:36:46Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > I just spent the last few minutes watching the helicopter video over and over again. And, while it’s partially obscured by the overhang (that I guess is the porch), it seems very clear to me that Clark is moving towards the officers at the time of the first muzzle flash (can’t see his hands). Am I missing something? That’s not clear at all by my viewing. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephon-clark-autopsy-disputes-police-account-wounds-indicate-he-was-shot-in-the-back/811490/104 "2018-04-05T20:43:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s not clear at all by my viewing. Really? Is the issue the timing of the first shot? I mean, it seems indisputable that he ends up (on the ground) closer to the officers than when he first comes into the video. (I don’t think its a perspective thing with the helicopter moving around the house.). And–I think–it’s clear that the entire time you see him in the helicopter video, he is generally moving towards (and certainly not away) from the officers. Where I had some uncertainty is whether the first shot was fired before he comes into the video and (as a result what he was doing when the first shot was fired), but it looks to me (at least fairly clearly) like they open fire after he comes into the video and while he is moving in their direction. Do you see it differently? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephon-clark-autopsy-disputes-police-account-wounds-indicate-he-was-shot-in-the-back/811490/105 "2018-04-05T20:45:48Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > Really? Is the issue the timing of the first shot? > > I mean, it seems indisputable that he ends up (on the ground) closer to the officers than when he first comes into the video. (I don’t think its a perspective thing with the helicopter moving around the house.). And–I think–it’s clear that the entire time you see him in the helicopter video, he is generally moving towards (and certainly not away) from the officers. > > Where I had some uncertainty is whether the first shot was fired before he comes into the video and (as a result what he was doing when the first shot was fired), but it looks to me (at least fairly clearly) like they open fire after he comes into the video and while he is moving in their direction. > > Do you see it differently? There’s an autopsy report that saw it differently-does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephon-clark-autopsy-disputes-police-account-wounds-indicate-he-was-shot-in-the-back/811490/106 "2018-04-05T20:57:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There’s an autopsy report that saw it differently-does that count? Who am I going to believe, the autopsy or my own lying eyes? Of course it counts. Although I don’t think it claims to answer the question I have. They clearly keep firing at him after he’s on the ground, so that could explain the shots in the back. (I am curious about how he got shot from the front in the _left_ thigh by people who were off to his right… that doesn’t seem to make sense). I’m not looking to defend the shooting. I’m asking a question about something that strikes me as inconsistent. Reading the internet, I’ve seen three (inconsistent) claims about what happened: (1) he moved towards them “threateningly” and they fired and kept firing after he was down; (2) he turns towards them and began getting on the ground to surrender and they shot him (and kept shooting); and (3) they shot him in the back as he fled. All three possibilities would account for being shot in the back. The third one seems inconsistent with what I see on the video. I don’t think the autopsy purports to identify which one is correct and I’m asking if I’m seeing the video differently from other people. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephon-clark-autopsy-disputes-police-account-wounds-indicate-he-was-shot-in-the-back/811490/107 "2018-04-05T20:58:17Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > Really? Is the issue the timing of the first shot? > > I mean, it seems indisputable that he ends up (on the ground) closer to the officers than when he first comes into the video. (I don’t think its a perspective thing with the helicopter moving around the house.). And–I think–it’s clear that the entire time you see him in the helicopter video, he is generally moving towards (and certainly not away) from the officers. > > Where I had some uncertainty is whether the first shot was fired before he comes into the video and (as a result what he was doing when the first shot was fired), but it looks to me (at least fairly clearly) like they open fire after he comes into the video and while he is moving in their direction. > > Do you see it differently? I haven’t watched it in a day or two, and I may have seen a different link. What link are you using? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephon-clark-autopsy-disputes-police-account-wounds-indicate-he-was-shot-in-the-back/811490/108 "2018-04-05T21:00:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know if you’re speaking about “morally” justify here, but in legal terms, doing things like “flee, resist arrest, fail to show their hands, or otherwise act stupid” are excellent ways of getting shot by the police, and oftentimes the legal system will judge the police actions justified. The legal system is corrupt. That is part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephon-clark-autopsy-disputes-police-account-wounds-indicate-he-was-shot-in-the-back/811490/109 "2018-04-05T21:01:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I haven’t watched it in a day or two, and I may have seen a different link. What link are you using? It’s off to the side around the 3 minute mark [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7TBm-ma-A0). And (a better rendition of the video) [around the 1:45 mark here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4eafRzWPiM). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephon-clark-autopsy-disputes-police-account-wounds-indicate-he-was-shot-in-the-back/811490/110 "2018-04-05T21:23:00Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > It’s off to the side around the 3 minute mark [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7TBm-ma-A0). And (a better rendition of the video) [around the 1:45 mark here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4eafRzWPiM). The exact sequence of events and movements are not at all clear to me based on those; I can’t tell if Clark is moving at all when the shooting starts (and I’m not sure if I can tell exactly when the shooting starts), much less what direction he’s moving. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephon-clark-autopsy-disputes-police-account-wounds-indicate-he-was-shot-in-the-back/811490/111 "2018-04-05T22:59:40Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > It’s off to the side around the 3 minute mark [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7TBm-ma-A0). And (a better rendition of the video) [around the 1:45 mark here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4eafRzWPiM). Falchion, in watching the second video you provided, I think it’s pretty clear Clark was advancing towards the officers when shot. From the helicopter, you get a first glimpse of him at 1:49 where he is behind / alongside the picnic table. In the next few seconds he moves along the side of the picnic table towards the officers, and eventually falls / lays down and comes to rest on the ground a few feet in front of the picnic table. I don’t think that that alone is enough to justify the shooting, but I think it’s pretty obvious which direction Clark was moving. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stephon-clark-autopsy-disputes-police-account-wounds-indicate-he-was-shot-in-the-back/811490.md?page=5)