The cops in CA have 10-round mags?
Apparently so. There were 2 officers. There were 20 shots. All the shots were fired over, if I heard correctly on the synced video, about three seconds. I do not think a mag could be swapped within that timeframe.
The Sacramento Police Department issues the Glock 9mmP pistol; the full-sized Model G17 has a 17 round magazine, and the compact Model G19 has a 15 round magazine. Most agencies carry an additional round in the chamber. Glock does sell 10 round magazines for states which have capacity limits on civilian-owned magazines (and 33 round magazines for people who don’t mind an awkward balance and really want to burn through a lot of cash quickly) but in California law enforcement is explicitly excluded from this restriction for authoritized duty weapons.
Stranger
This is my understanding too. Unless MarvinKitFox or eschereal have a source to support the claim, I’m inclined to believe that post #60 is just plain wrong (and that the cops probably had additional ammo in their magazines at the point they stopped firing).
As a counter-point to some of the posts in this thread, I’d urge you to spend the few minutes it will take to watch this (WARNING: GRAPHIC) video of a recent police shooting of a young black man in Louisville. I think it does a good job of illustrating just how quickly things can go to shit and officers can be thrust into life-or-death situations. I’m generally sympathetic to many of the concerns raised here about how police perform their jobs, but I also believe there’s some value in trying to understand their perspective on these situations too.
I’m perfectly fine with the cop on the driver’s side tazing the shit out of the guy if he didn’t show his hands.
I don’t think anyone has argued that ALL police shootings are unjustified.
That was a scary video, but it was rather unambiguous that the suspect presented a deadly threat. No reasonable person would find fault with the police there.
(The suspect, incidentally, is alive.)
Yes, and my post did not claim that anyone had. The point was to show that events like that actually do happen in real life and that cops train and prepare for events such as that. IMHO, they tend to err on the side of “that guy might be trying to kill me, I’d better shoot him” for far too many furtive / sudden movements that often have much more mundane explanations, but the reality is that they do, so absent sweeping police reforms, citizens would do well to understand this phenomenon and act accordingly (a good starting point would be to not run around at night breaking your neighbors’ windows).
OK, I was wrong about Clark not being shot in the back. That having been said, I am not sure how much this contradicts the police story. It is certainly something to consider, but I don’t think it proves anything definitive. At least not yet.
Regards,
Shodan
I don’t think it proves anything definitive either. But it does reasonably raise skepticism about the police account, right?
And as a larger question, that reasonable skepticism about police accounts of shooting is (IMO) rather common is a huge societal problem right? I think it is, in that it greatly increases (reasonable) distrust of police, and thus leads to greater likelihood of peaceful members of minority communities seeing cops as potentially dangerous enemies, and not cooperating/obeying out of fear. What do you believe is the responsibility for public officials to try and correct this issue?
Yes.
If the police show up, cooperate. Don’t run, don’t resist. Especially if you didn’t do anything illegal.
Just because their answer to “why did you run?” is often “I was afraid of getting shot”, doesn’t mean that is an honest answer- usually it is because people don’t want to face the legal consequences of their actions.
Of course, there is also the option of not committing crimes in the first place.
I have a bit of experience- I had a “felony stop” once. 9 officers with guns drawn, fingers on triggers, hands-on-head walking backwards, shouting for a nonexistent passenger to come out (by procedure, they didn’t ask for nor cared for my telling them there was no one else). I didn’t argue or yell or complain; I moved slowly and carefully because I was worried someone might twitch as part of a reaction.
Im still here.
And the problem is that a lot of people feel that your advice is significantly less likely to save their lives if they are not white.
Are you white?
[My bold]
These two bolded areas seem to be contradicting each other. How do you have the option of not committing crimes if you didn’t do anything illegal?
What do you suggest this “lot of people” do, then?
They do not contradict each other, and I think you know exactly what I meant. But, okay.
1- Don’t resist arrest, whether or not you did anything illegal.
2- Hopefully, you didn’t do anything illegal in the first place.
Is this too complicated? Do you disagree with my post? Please reply with an explanation of why crime and resisting arrest or detention are good ideas.
What, do I sound too “White”? Does every person of color have to react like the “entertaining” subjects on Cops? I don’t let grievances prevent me from trying. Did Barack Obama decide “screw it, I’m never going to get a fair shake, I’ll steal shit and sell drugs”? Most of the people I hang with are immigrants or 1st generation immigrants to the USA. Do they act as expected, or do they study during school, work at their jobs, or watch the kids while others are at school or work?
Sure, there is racism and stereotypes. They are no excuse for not trying your best.
You said, “Of course, there is also the option of not committing crimes in the first place.”, as if this were a way of avoiding issues with the police. If you didn’t mean that not committing crimes was a way of avoiding issues with the police, then why did you even mention it?
Not complicated, just self contradictory.
Yes, you are taking a complex subject, and trying to make it simple. IME, that always leaves out some very important details.
Why would I reply with something that has no relation to my post whatsoever?
What part of the police account does it contradict?
No, I don’t think reasonable skepticism of police accounts is a huge problem.
Regards,
Shodan
I felt really sad and ashamed when one of the thoughts that crossed my mind, after “how the F are cops still doing this after all the stories that have come out” was “we’ve all heard about ‘The Talk’, why didn’t the victim follow these guidelines?” 
In searching for some justification for this crap, I blamed the victim. I know better – I know that even doing everything you’re saying isn’t enough to keep people from being shot.
That he moved towards them. You disagree? Seems hard to shoot someone in the back multiple times while they’re moving towards you.
Considering that 50% of black people report that they have been mistreated by police, it seems like a problem to me. If you’ve been mistreated by law enforcement, it seems pretty reasonable to be skeptical of the honesty and morality of law enforcement, right?