# Stereotype of the Jolly/Funny Fat Guy **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 12, 2019, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116 "2019-09-12T17:22:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/1 "2019-09-12T17:22:50Z")
Question is how this got started. AFAICT, fat people aren’t more (or less) funny than thin people, on average. But most stereotypes have some basis and don’t arise out of thin air. A lot of clown costumes deliberately convey a fat appearance, but that begs the question, and my inclination would be that the costumes are intended to invoke the stereotype rather than that they were initially done that way for no apparent reason and then created the stereotype. Though I suppose it’s possible that some early and influential clown was overweight and others copied his image. My theory is that it arose from movie roles. Fat people were less suitable for lead romantic or adventure hero roles, and thus a disproportionate percentage of fat people in leading roles were in comic roles. Enough Fatty Arbuckles, Oliver Hardys, Lou Costellos, and Jackie Gleasons and so on, and the stereotype was created. (Note: that’s not to say that there weren’t also a lot of comic thin actors, but rather that the thin comics were a much lower percentage of thin leading roles as compared to the percentage of fat people of fat leading roles.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/2 "2019-09-12T17:25:31Z")
Maybe it comes from Santa, at least partially? IIRC, the popular image of the fat, jolly Santa Claus came about at roughly the same time as the performers you mention. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/3 "2019-09-12T17:30:54Z")
Falstaff, clearly. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/4 "2019-09-12T17:30:56Z")
In _ **The Night Before Christmas** _ (_ **A Visit from St Nicholas** _), first published anonymously in 1823, Santa Claus is described as being fat and jolly. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/5 "2019-09-12T19:15:06Z")
Fat people were rare until extremely recent times. They would have stood out, be noticeable, and be teased or bullied. A minority who can’t fight back often resorts to humor to deflect opprobrium. I’d say Falstaff is a direct descendant of Bacchus, made fat and jolly through drink. The original beer belly. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/6 "2019-09-12T19:25:01Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I’d say Falstaff is a direct descendant of Bacchus, made fat and jolly through drink. The original beer belly. Falstaff also has elements of the Roman stock character Miles Gloriosus, the braggart soldier. The Romans brought this over from the Greek stock character Alazon. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/7 "2019-09-12T19:59:30Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Fat people were rare until extremely recent times. They would have stood out, be noticeable, and be teased or bullied. A minority who can’t fight back often resorts to humor to deflect opprobrium. > > I’d say Falstaff is a direct descendant of Bacchus, made fat and jolly through drink. The original beer belly. Fat people would have been rich and powerful due to that fact that they could be fat. Its doubtful they would have been bullied. Also physics. F=MA. Its only in very modern times can people become obese through a sedentary lifestyle. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/8 "2019-09-12T20:11:41Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Fat people were rare until extremely recent times. They would have stood out, be noticeable, and be teased or bullied. A minority who can’t fight back often resorts to humor to deflect opprobrium. > > I’d say Falstaff is a direct descendant of Bacchus, made fat and jolly through drink. The original beer belly. Back when most people worked hard and didn’t get a lot to eat, people who had the leisure and resources to get fat had reason to be jolly. The stereotype of the fat person as being contented at least, if not jolly, while thin people were morose, goes back a long time: > [@](#): > > Caesar: > Let me have men about me that are fat, > Sleek-headed men and such as sleep a-nights. > Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look, > He thinks too much; such men are dangerous. > > Julius Caesar Act 1, scene 2, 190–195 ---
**Author:** ![JacobSwan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@JacobSwan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JacobSwan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/9 "2019-09-12T20:17:03Z")
The stock characters in Atellan Farce include a couple of fat guys. Maccus and Buccus. These were adopted by the Romans and then plagiarised by everyone else. Plautus used them a lot and he was a big influence on Shakespeare. His Sponge character was a fool and a glutton. So I’d say at least 391BC. ---
**Author:** ![Trancephalic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trancephalic/32/380_2.png) [@Trancephalic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trancephalic)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/10 "2019-09-12T20:17:30Z")
I thought the ill-fitting clothes clowns wear is part an parcle of a vagabond donning whatever second-hand rags he could acquire, just like reason they’re typically color-uncoordinated. > [@Icarus](#): > > Falstaff also has elements of the Roman stock character Miles Gloriosus, the braggart soldier. The Romans brought this over from the Greek stock character Alazon. Laughing Buddha has been around for quite awhile, too. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/11 "2019-09-12T20:34:00Z")
> [@Trancephalic](#): > > Laughing Buddha has been around for quite awhile, too. [Budai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budai) (a.k.a. the Laughing Buddha) appears to be based on a Chinese monk from roughly the 10th century, and was integrated into Chinese Buddhism by the 12th century. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/12 "2019-09-12T21:31:04Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Its only in very modern times can people become obese through a sedentary lifestyle. It’s only in very modern times that \*ordinary \*people can become obese through a sedentary lifestyle. The rich and powerful have pretty much always been sedentary. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/13 "2019-09-12T22:55:34Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Fat people would have been rich and powerful due to that fact that they could be fat. Its doubtful they would have been bullied. Also physics. F=MA. Its only in very modern times can people become obese through a sedentary lifestyle. Yeah, no. Check out [Daniel Lambert](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Lambert). Not rich or powerful, definitely teased and bullied. When he fell into poverty he needed to make a career of being on display. He’s the most extreme example but he’s not one of a kind. There was little the obese could do except be treated as an object of scorn. Obese people turn up regularly in cartoon caricatures throughout the 18th and 19th centuries. Women were especially [mocked and shamed if they grew obese](https://www.mimimatthews.com/2016/04/25/victorian-fat-shaming-harsh-words-on-weight-from-the-19th-century/). Even among the upper classes, sufferers of gout were thought to be dissolute. Earlier examples have already been mentioned in this thread. I’m using America and England from the 18th century on because it’s easier to find examples after newspapers and magazines began printing illustrations. But it’s obvious that if Shakespeare used a fat person as a type, then fat people were instantly recognizable to his audiences, and they certainly couldn’t only have been the rich and powerful. ---
**Author:** ![kirkrapine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@kirkrapine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirkrapine)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/14 "2019-09-12T23:04:31Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Falstaff, clearly. Funny, but not exactly jolly. A lot of his lines are about his impending death. ---
**Author:** ![kirkrapine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@kirkrapine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirkrapine)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/15 "2019-09-12T23:07:11Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > [Budai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budai) (a.k.a. the Laughing Buddha) appears to be based on a Chinese monk from roughly the 10th century, and was integrated into Chinese Buddhism by the 12th century. Yeah, statues of Gautama himself usually show a thin guy. Also, for some reason, a guy who has huge holes in his earlobes, and hair that grows in little tufts, like an African Bushman’s. ---
**Author:** ![kirkrapine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@kirkrapine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirkrapine)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/16 "2019-09-12T23:10:16Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Even among the upper classes, sufferers of gout were thought to be dissolute. [Paging Benjamin Franklin!](https://www.bartleby.com/109/3.html) ('Ware much 18th-Century pseudoscience.) ---
**Author:** ![kirkrapine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@kirkrapine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirkrapine)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/17 "2019-09-17T00:44:55Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Falstaff also has elements of the Roman stock character Miles Gloriosus, the braggart soldier. The Romans brought this over from the Greek stock character Alazon. Pistol, however, is nearer to the Miles Gloriosus trope. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/18 "2019-09-17T14:21:55Z")
Every time I hear “Jolly” I have to share a conversation I had with my wife: Wife: “Do you think I look jolly?” Me: “Oh, sure, fat people always look jolly.” Wife: “I said ‘JOWLY’…” Me: (or maybe it was a joke I read in Reader’s Digest 40 years ago) ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/19 "2019-09-17T20:56:05Z")
Who was the funniest guy on Animal House… John Belushi. Who was the funniest guy in the Stooges… Curley. Who was the funniest guy in Laurel and Hardy… Oliver Hardy. Who was the funniest guy in Caddyshack… Bill Murray (But Rodney Dangerfield is in the top three). How much more evidence do you need? ---
**Author:** ![kirkrapine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@kirkrapine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirkrapine)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116/20 "2019-09-17T21:03:06Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > Who was the funniest guy in Laurel and Hardy… Oliver Hardy. But it was Laurel who wrote the scenes – see, I think, _Creators,_ by Paul Johnson, or possibly _Humorists_ by the same author. (He also goes into how hard Charlie Chaplin worked at his craft.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotype-of-the-jolly-funny-fat-guy/840116.md?page=2)