# Stereotypically "girlie" interests: do you feel contempt for them, and if so, why?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139>\
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion\
**Created:** [March 28, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139 "2010-03-28T20:44:10Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 7

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**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/121 "2010-03-29T18:41:17Z")

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> [@Bijou\_Drains](#):
>
> I am a guy and I have no idea when a woman is wearing expensive clothes or jewelery. I just know what looks good but I have no idea if it costs $500 or $50. (except in rare cases)

Well, unless you paid for it. 😉

[QUOTE=matt\_mcl]  
It’s pretty common to characterize “feminine” things or characteristics as unreal, artificial, frivolous, affected or fake and corresponding “masculine” things of no more or less actual utility as real, natural, serious, artless, or important. Witness sports casts being treated as though they are actual news.  
[/QUOTE]

I left out sports since _participation_ in sports is productive; you get exercise. However, the suggestion that gaming or music (and I say this as a fan of both) are in any real sense less pointless than fashion is ridiculous on its face.

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**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/122 "2010-03-29T18:47:04Z")

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> [@Bijou\_Drains](#):
>
> “The only possible purpose that expensive designer clothing serves is to attract a guy”
> 
> If this is true, then why do married women and women with boyfriends wear those clothes?

Indeed, from a male perspective the comment is often made that much of women’s fashion is _not_ designed to appeal to men. Few men really notice the finer points of shoes and handbags, for example. In our culture, this appears to be a luxury that appeals to women mostly.

Not that this makes it any more or less shallow than any other sort of luxury …

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**Author:** ![badbadrubberpiggy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/57b2e6/32.png) [@badbadrubberpiggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badbadrubberpiggy)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/123 "2010-03-29T18:47:31Z")

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> [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#):
>
> Thanks for your honesty. There can be a tendency in IMHO for the threads to be so one-sided at times, which is annoying. Maybe I misunderstand your comment (bolding mine), but I don’t see anyone who is presuming that deep down inside, women truly like only girly things, but they say they like hockey just to save face? :dubious:

It’s certainly not what I meant, and I don’t think anyone else did either.

Just that when a woman professes a girly interest, she must also profess one that’s not girly as well. This isn’t meant to imply the non-girly interest isn’t TRUE at all.

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**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/124 "2010-03-29T18:48:59Z")

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My wife doesn’t buy expensive clothes so I know hers cost $50 or less. 🙂

I don’t think I know anyone who buys pricey designer clothes but maybe I do and just don’t realize it.

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**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/125 "2010-03-29T18:54:50Z")

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> [@Malthus](#):
>
> Indeed, from a male perspective the comment is often made that much of women’s fashion is _not_ designed to appeal to men. Few men really notice the finer points of shoes and handbags, for example. In our culture, this appears to be a luxury that appeals to women mostly.
> 
> Not that this makes it any more or less shallow than any other sort of luxury …

I think it’s remarkable that we would _expect_ it to appeal to men first and foremost, as if that’s the only basis on which women make any decisions.

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**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/126 "2010-03-29T18:57:08Z")

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Skimpy clothes that show a lot of skin, I’m pretty sure that is designed to appeal to men. 🙂 But that is not the same as high/expensive fashion.

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**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/127 "2010-03-29T19:03:46Z")

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> [@NinjaChick](#):
>
> I have nothing but contempt for the stereotypically girly things. They don’t accomplish anything. Gaming and music and sports are actual things that people do; fashion doesn’t _do_ anything. It just clothes, it’s just metal and rocks, it’s just makeup. I don’t have much patience for anyone who has very limited interests to begin with, but I’m more likely to take someone seriously if they’re obsessed with, say, rock climbing or cars than I am someone who’s obsessed with Sex in the City or fashion. The only possible purpose that expensive designer clothing serves is to attract a guy, and I guess I hold the radical belief that there’s more to life then chasing after men.
> 
> Every time a woman giggles about shoe shopping or something, she perpetuates a stereotype that _all_ women are primarily concerned with shoe shopping (or whatever). That leaves those of us who really don’t care about it and prefer practical shoes in some weird no man’s land: I’m apparently not feminine, because I don’t own any high heels and have never watched an entire episode of Sex in the City and would much rather watch an action movie than a romantic comedy - but I’m still obviously biologically female, and therefore couldn’t possibly be truly interested in other things. I’m getting some of that from this thread, even: oh, she’s just saying she’s also into hockey as well as romance novels to save face, we all know that since she’s a woman she must prefer the latter.
> 
> Also, part of my objection to female-oriented media, whether it’s TV or books or movies, is that it’s just awful writing. If preferring a well-written book to Nora Roberts or some other crap written solely to make money off fat housewives makes me sexist, so be it.

Anyone who has actual _contempt_ for anything that’s not, say, puppy-kicking or baby punting, gets a mental eyeroll from me. Reading your post made me picture an extremely insecure woman who feels that “girly” things are inherently frivolous and gosh darnit, she’s not _frivolous_! Therefore, she will go overboard and actually have contempt towards “girly” things, instead of just disinterest.

The entire point of “saying she’s into hockey as well as romance novels” is exactly the _opposite_ of what you’re assuming. It’s because if both are _true_, saying you like hockey makes you look “better” than if you just liked romance books. Your entire attitude in this post underscores _why_ some women do this. You’d sneer at them if they just mentioned liking romance novels.

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**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/128 "2010-03-29T19:04:50Z")

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For the record, I don’t give a shit if my mates dislike hockey, or any other sport. Again, I don’t want a significant other who can outburp me. Recognizing the name of the quarterback of my football team is fine.

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**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/129 "2010-03-29T19:05:34Z")

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> [@zweisamkeit](#):
>
> Anyone who has actual _contempt_ for anything that’s not, say, puppy-kicking or baby punting, gets a mental eyeroll from me. Reading your post made me picture an extremely insecure woman who feels that “girly” things are inherently frivolous and gosh darnit, she’s not _frivolous_! Therefore, she will go overboard and actually have contempt towards “girly” things, instead of just disinterest.
> 
> The entire point of “saying she’s into hockey as well as romance novels” is exactly the _opposite_ of what you’re assuming. It’s because if both are _true_, saying you like hockey makes you look “better” than if you just liked romance books. Your entire attitude in this post underscores _why_ some women do this. You’d sneer at them if they just mentioned liking romance novels.

This is what I was picturing in my post above. When you are knocked down in your teens for not being popular enough, it can create this kind of IMO unreasonable hate.

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**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/130 "2010-03-29T19:07:40Z")

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> [@badbadrubberpiggy](#):
>
> It’s certainly not what I meant, and I don’t think anyone else did either.
> 
> Just that when a woman professes a girly interest, she must also profess one that’s not girly as well. This isn’t meant to imply the non-girly interest isn’t TRUE at all.

I agree with you. That’s what I meant, too. My :dubious: comment was in response to this paragraph, which, as I said, I’m not sure how to interpret:

> [@NinjaChick](#):
>
> Every time a woman giggles about shoe shopping or something, she perpetuates a stereotype that _all_ women are primarily concerned with shoe shopping (or whatever). That leaves those of us who really don’t care about it and prefer practical shoes in some weird no man’s land: I’m apparently not feminine, because I don’t own any high heels and have never watched an entire episode of Sex in the City and would much rather watch an action movie than a romantic comedy - but I’m still obviously biologically female, and therefore couldn’t possibly be truly interested in other things. **I’m getting some of that from this thread, even: oh, she’s just saying she’s also into hockey as well as romance novels to save face, we all know that since she’s a woman she must prefer the latter.**

I had originally responded

> [@](#):
>
> Thanks for your honesty. There can be a tendency in IMHO for the threads to be so one-sided at times, which is annoying. Maybe I misunderstand your comment (bolding mine), but I don’t see anyone who is presuming that deep down inside, women truly like only girly things, but they say they like hockey just to save face? :dubious:

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**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/131 "2010-03-29T19:08:51Z")

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> [@Malthus](#):
>
> Perhaps we are both right, in this sense: that in the past, more “high ranking” activities were reserved for men only, and thus got associated with being “manly”. Feminist liberation is thus seen in the context of seizing these activities for oneself as a woman. It is now normalized to such an extent that even those who do not consider themselves “feminists” simply take it for granted that they ought to do these things, too.

Yes. I think this is right.

It just occured to me that when I think of regional stereotypes, I think of women in the red states as more likely to be football fanatical, pickup truck-driving, beer-drinking, gun toters. And when I think of _men_ in the blue states, I think of elegantly-groomed (AKA metrosexual) latte drinkers who rather go listen to acoustic music rather than go to a basketball game. Of course these are kind of exaggerated generalizations here, but I’m wondering if conservatism is more likely to cause to women to gravitate towards “male” interests, because that is what is most esteemed in the community.

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**Author:** ![Lestrade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Lestrade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lestrade)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/132 "2010-03-29T19:14:54Z")

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> [@matt\_mcl](#):
>
> People say this about gay men, too, and I don’t get it. Why would my interests reflect on someone else, purely on the basis of their gender or their sexual orientation? Surely if someone extrapolates from one woman and assumes her interests are those of all womankind, the problem is with the extrapolator, not with the woman’s interests?

Yep, you’re right, it’s unfair. Regardless, people do this pretty frequently. When they want to understand (or characterize) a class of people they use their experience with members of the group. It’s not entirely unreasonable, but it is fraught with selection bias; you’re more likely to notice loud, annoying people, so your sample generally isn’t representative.

If you accept my argument, then you should see that you profit when people like you do good things. There are a lot of ways to slice up the population, so the argument applies to your gender, age, ethnicity, etc. The actions of an individual have more impact in smaller groups and classes that are less popular.

If you’re with me this far then the rest should be smooth. Gay men aren’t universally respected and some can be _really_ annoying. This negatively affects innocent folks and should be discouraged or at least resented. To use an extreme example after a school shooting hits the news people that share interests with the killer are scrutinized and sometimes persecuted. It may not be fair, but it happens.

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**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/133 "2010-03-29T19:15:25Z")

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The fact that they are _more likely_ to be X does not mean most of them are X. There are in fact very few women who drive pickup trucks in red states, even if there are more than in blue states.

On the other hand, there are an awful lot who are football fans, or at least a lot who enjoy attending football games.

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**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/134 "2010-03-29T19:16:22Z")

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> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> I left out sports since _participation_ in sports is productive; you get exercise.

Yeah, but being a sports fan is different than _playing_ sports. The vast majority of sports spectators aren’t getting exercise while they watch the game, except that which comes with stuffing their face with hotdogs and doritos while they make that dent in the couch deeper.

Getting emotional about a bunch of overpaid adults who are standing around hitting, throwing, or bouncing a ball into the air is pretty pathetic, when you reduce the whole thing down to its core parts and really think about it.

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**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/135 "2010-03-29T19:16:27Z")

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> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#):
>
> Yes. I think this is right.
> 
> It just occured to me that when I think of regional stereotypes, I think of women in the red states as more likely to be football fanatical, pickup truck-driving, beer-drinking, gun toters. And when I think of _men_ in the blue states, I think of elegantly-groomed (AKA metrosexual) latte drinkers who rather go listen to acoustic music rather than go to a basketball game. Of course these are kind of exaggerated generalizations here, but I’m wondering if conservatism is more likely to cause to women to gravitate towards “male” interests, because that is what is most esteemed in the community.

Interesting hypothesis. I’ll be a data point for you (sort of). I’m a libertarian/“classical liberal” type. Think objectivism without the crazy Ayn Rand baggage. So no, I don’t drive a pickup truck, drink beer, or tote a gun (though I have no objection them and am anti-gun control). I’m pro-choice, pro-gay rights, not religious, and not too fond of the welfare state. So I’m not sure where that puts me in your spectrum, but definitely not red-state conservative.

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**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/136 "2010-03-29T19:17:09Z")

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> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> For the record, I don’t give a shit if my mates dislike hockey, or any other sport. Again, I don’t want a significant other who can outburp me. Recognizing the name of the quarterback of my football team is fine.

I’ll take Eudora Welty off your [match.com](http://match.com) list, then.

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**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/137 "2010-03-29T19:21:23Z")

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> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> The fact that they are _more likely_ to be X does not mean most of them are X.

Yeah, I know this. “More likely to be X” always means proportionally, not numerically.

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**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/138 "2010-03-29T19:22:49Z")

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Why, thank you, madam. 😉

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**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/139 "2010-03-29T19:44:46Z")

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> [@Lestrade](#):
>
> If you’re with me this far then the rest should be smooth. Gay men aren’t universally respected and some can be _really_ annoying. This negatively affects innocent folks and should be discouraged or at least resented.

What should be, exactly? A gay man has no more obligation not to be annoying than a straight man does, and a woman, or a gay man, has no obligation whatsoever not to be harmlessly “girly” just because other people inaccurately characterize other women/gay men for that reason. It’s the stereotypers who need changing.

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**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\
**Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stereotypically-girlie-interests-do-you-feel-contempt-for-them-and-if-so-why/534139/140 "2010-03-29T20:23:49Z")

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> [@Lestrade](#):
>
> This negatively affects innocent folks and should be discouraged or at least resented.

All this resentment does is waste emotional energy on people you have no control over. It also can cause someone to cut themselves off from a harmless or maybe even socially important interest that is associated with their group, simply due to shame and fear of ridicule.

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