# Steve Bannon and "the fourth turning" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 9, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397 "2017-02-09T16:24:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![plankter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ba0ec/32.png) [@plankter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plankter)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/21 "2017-02-11T21:31:02Z")
I saw Ghostbusters in a theater yesterday (cheap matinee FTW!) and was reminded of this thread. There’s an utterly creepy antagonist, not too dissimilar in looks to Sbannon, who repeats “Charge the lines, create the vortex, break the barriers”, and at one point ‘the fourth transformation’ or something very similar was mentioned. I was genuinely chilled. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/22 "2017-02-11T21:46:43Z")
Marshmellow wrote: “What do you think he got wrong? I’ve heard the four cycles idea before but don’t know the details. It always sounded like something from fantasy fiction to me.” It’s been a while, but I hope to reread it soon. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/23 "2017-02-11T22:03:55Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > As for the reliability of their predictive prowess, the did postulate something they called the “Great Devaluation” which seemed uncomfortably like the “Great Recession” of the late oughts/early teens. And for other predictions of this period weren’t a lot of economic policymakers predicting that these big boom/bust cycles were a thing of the past as the appropriate monetary and fiscal policy could smooth out the economy? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/24 "2017-02-11T22:10:50Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > So Bannon thinks a lotus will blossom in Trump’s bellybutton That’s not a bellybutton… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/25 "2017-02-11T22:30:59Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > And for other predictions of this period weren’t a lot of economic policymakers predicting that these big boom/bust cycles were a thing of the past as the appropriate monetary and fiscal policy could smooth out the economy? You can’t have that “appropriate monetary and fiscal policy” when the Republicans fight it tooth and nail. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/26 "2017-02-11T22:39:34Z")
This is troubling stuff. I think Trump should quickly ascertain whether Bannon still subscribes to these lunatic theories and if he does he should fire his ass. Having said that I have a feeling that quite a few Republican and Democrat Senators from the Bible Belt hold some pretty wild beliefs about Armageddon. Didn’t Reagan have some cockamamie idea about Israel and the Day of Judgment? Personally I’d be happy for religion to be banned from politics altogether. You’re Christian? You’re Muslim? You’re Hindu? You’re all out; you clearly have unbalanced minds and are unfit for politics. Although come to think of it maybe that’s a _requirement_ for politicians now. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/27 "2017-02-11T22:49:13Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > This is troubling stuff. I think Trump should quickly ascertain whether Bannon still subscribes to these lunatic theories and if he does he should fire his ass. …you’ve got to be fucking kidding me. Have you not been paying attention the last two years? ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/28 "2017-02-11T23:02:35Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Personally I’d be happy for religion to be banned from politics altogether. I’m you sure you’re already aware of the[threat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Amendment)to the Johnson Amendment. > [@](#): > > During his 2016 presidential campaign, Donald Trump called for the repeal of the amendment.[8] At the National Prayer Breakfast on February 2, 2017, President Trump, vowed to “totally destroy” the Johnson Amendment.[9] Later that day, Republican lawmakers introduced legislation that would allow all 501(c)(3) organizations to support political candidates, as long as any associated spending was minimal. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/29 "2017-02-11T23:05:58Z")
aldiboronti doesn’t realize that Trump also subscribes to lunatic theories. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/30 "2017-02-12T00:20:38Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > aldiboronti doesn’t realize that Trump also subscribes to lunatic theories. Not strange when one realizes how many like him “reasoned” that Trump was not really serious about a lot of what he claimed. Sorry Trump voters, but the reasons mentioned many times before about why one should not had voted for Trump were said not just because of politics. ([And it was not just liberals who told you to be wary](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/430137/donald-trump-conservative-movement-menace)) You got what you [del]paid[/del] voted for. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/31 "2017-02-12T01:23:22Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > That’s not a bellybutton… Surpraaz surpraahz, that’s not a lotus neither! ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/32 "2017-02-12T01:30:51Z")
If I were a conspiracy theory guy, I’d worry more about Bannon’s rumored dalliance with the crazy anti-democracy neoreactionaries than I would his infatuation with a fairly benign pop history idea like the Fourth Turning. ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/33 "2017-02-12T01:32:20Z")
Yeah, but Hillary’s emails… ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/34 "2017-02-12T02:07:59Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not strange when one realizes how many like him “reasoned” that Trump was not really serious about a lot of what he claimed. I’m still stunned at the, literally, overnight change in attitudes towards Trump from a number of my relatives. First they condemned him for being a serial liar, a bankrupt, and a know-nothing when it comes to politics and government. Then–BAM!–he’s the best thing since sliced bread. > [@](#): > > Sorry Trump voters, but the reasons mentioned many times before about why one should not had voted for Trump were said not just because of politics. ([And it was not just liberals who told you to be wary](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/430137/donald-trump-conservative-movement-menace)) > > You got what you [del]paid[/del] voted for. Well, I didn’t vote for him. Sadly, owing to Gerogia’s restrictive rules, it turned out that I was unable to vote in this election. Of course I would’ve voted for someone other than Trump and that would have made exactly zero difference in that SOB carrying the state. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/35 "2017-02-12T02:45:52Z")
That would be Georgia (the state, not the country), not Gerogia to which I referred in post #34. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/36 "2017-02-12T06:10:25Z")
I don’t have the heart to read these stories — they just fill me with gloom and grief. And I’m certainly not motivated to watch FoxNews’ take on this for myself. But what _is_ their take? Do they suppress news like this? _Or rejoice in it?_ More generally, how is FoxNews reacting to the whole Trump debacle? I have a reason for asking: I’m making my own small efforts to communicate with Trump supporters. What stories should I be linking to enlighten these people? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/37 "2017-02-12T08:46:05Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > That would be Georgia (the state, not the country), not Gerogia to which I referred in post #34. Not to worry. I’ve been given to understand that Gerogia is ALSO full of unhelpful, self-important little pissants. ---
**Author:** ![Blinkyandpinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@Blinkyandpinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blinkyandpinky)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/38 "2017-02-12T19:11:51Z")
Bannon, a wise man with good ideas that are sorely needed in our current troubling times. The more that liberals hate or protest certain people, the more you know that those people are on the right track. It’s basically good vs evil and liberals do not qualify as good. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/39 "2017-02-12T19:27:27Z")
> [@Blinkyandpinky](#): > > Bannon, a wise man with good ideas that are sorely needed in our current troubling times. > > The more that liberals hate or protest certain people, the more you know that those people are on the right track. > > It’s basically good vs evil and liberals do not qualify as good. Hehehhe, you’re the most transparent little fucktard. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397/40 "2017-02-12T19:29:02Z")
> [@Blinkyandpinky](#): > > Bannon, a wise man with good ideas [/snip] Wrong right away… [QI KLAXON/ALARM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU5mOT57ghM) Neither wise nor good ideas. > **[Before Joining Trump White House, Steve Bannon Ran A Website That Viciously...](https://www.mediamatters.org/donald-trump/joining-trump-white-house-steve-bannon-ran-website-viciously-attacked-climate)** > > Donald Trump has notably said that climate change is a hoax created by the Chinese. Now, as president, he will turn to advice from Steve Bannon of Breitbart News, a white nationalist website that has smeared climate scientists, the Pope, and... > [@](#): > > Donald Trump has notably said that climate change is a hoax created by the Chinese. Now, as president, he will turn to advice from Steve Bannon of Breitbart News, a white nationalist website that has smeared climate scientists, the Pope, and others who recognize the need to fight climate change. [http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/02/steve-bannon-books-reading-list-214745](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/02/steve-bannon-books-reading-list-214745) > [@](#): > > Bannon’s readings tend to have one thing in common: the view that technocrats have put Western civilization on a downward trajectory and that only a shock to the system can reverse its decline. And they tend to have a dark, apocalyptic tone that at times echoes Bannon’s own public remarks over the years—a sense that humanity is at a hinge point in history. His ascendant presence in the West Wing is giving once-obscure intellectuals unexpected influence over the highest echelons of government. > > Bannon’s 2015 documentary, “Generation Zero,” drew heavily on one of his favorite books, “The Fourth Turning” by William Strauss and Neil Howe. The book explains a theory of history unfolding in 80- to 100-year cycles, or “turnings,” the fourth and final stage of which is marked by periods of cataclysmic change in which the old order is destroyed and replaced—a current period that, in Bannon’s view, was sparked by the 2008 financial crisis and has now been manifested in part by the rise of Trump. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/steve-bannon-and-the-fourth-turning/779397.md?page=3)