# Stifling debate without justification **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [January 27, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905 "2023-01-27T16:13:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/1 "2023-01-27T16:13:47Z")
Wow. I do not understand why What\_Exit is suddenly coming down on me like a ton of bricks. Closed my debate [All Americans need education in Black studies](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/1) once and came back almost immediately threatening it again. Insulted my debate by calling it “a mess” and “witnessing, not a debate.” That’s downright unfair. Debate means when somebody argues with me, I get to tell them why they’re wrong. Then they get a turn to tell me why I’m wrong. That’s what we were doing, but some individuals including inexplicably What Exit decided to attack and libel me instead of making the counter arguments that are expected in a debate. I mean, I am debating the issue. Somebody comes along to insult me and threadshit, how is that my fault? Thread ban that person, it’s only fair. I don’t know what I did to turn you suddenly so harshly against me. I meekly agreed with your thread ban of me yesterday and I thought we were all being reasonable here. But today I’m honestly baffled why you seem to have it in for me. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/2 "2023-01-27T16:17:43Z")
Don’t know you other than being here a long time like myself. I don’t have it in for you at all. We never interacted as Mod and poster before yesterday. Your thread is a mess. You opened by Jr. Modding almost immediately. You quoted a poster out of context to make a point to another poster. Your debate is more witnessing than debate. **Dinsdale** is correct. I am not debating your topic, I am moderating your thread. There is a huge difference. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/3 "2023-01-27T16:30:27Z")
Your judgment about quoting DavidNRockies “out of context” is ridiculous. He was calling my OP “an inherently reasonable proposition.” I like how he wrote that once sentence and made it a pull quote to highlight it as an example of a good debate argument. You call my self-defense against unfair accusations “junior modding,” which again is unfair, or else I could not say anything against an unfair accusation like Dinsdale’s. You repeat the insults about “a mess” and “witnessing,” but that’s way too unfair and denigrating. Those accusations are untrue and I’m asking you to stop repeating them. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/4 "2023-01-27T16:35:13Z")
Funny, the poster in question felt they were being quoted out of context and to my eye, they were 100% correct. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/5 "2023-01-27T16:36:41Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > You call my self-defense against unfair accusations “junior modding,” I’m not sure what @What_Exit was referring to but I would call this junior modding: > [@All Americans need education in Black studies](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/3): > > My intent for this thread is to keep a laser focus on Black studies. It seems wrong to me to start a GD where the topic up for debate is _whether_ there should be a specific Black studies course, and then try to forbid anyone from questioning it by proposing anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/6 "2023-01-27T16:41:24Z")
That was not junior modding in the slightest. I was stating my intention for how I planned to conduct myself in the debate. I wasn’t telling anybody else what to do or what not to do. You misinterpreted what I said very badly. Now, here I am asking: Don’t call my thread a “mess” and don’t call it “not a debate.” I’m allowed to defend the existence of my own argument. That isn’t junior modding. That’s debating. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/7 "2023-01-27T16:44:16Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I wasn’t telling anybody else what to do or what not to do. You misinterpreted what I said very badly. I accept that this was not your intent, but perhaps rather than lecturing me that I misinterpreted you “very badly” you should examine whether you expressed yourself clearly when you said: “My intent **for this thread** …” That sounds very much like an OP specifying the intended scope of their thread. It looks to me that @Acsenray interpreted your post in just the same way I did, specifying scope. > [@All Americans need education in Black studies](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/3): > > My intent for this thread is to keep a laser focus on Black studies. > [@All Americans need education in Black studies](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/4): > > I made that a parenthetical and I hope it doesn’t derail your intent. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/8 "2023-01-27T16:45:48Z")
Your _mess_ of a thread has earned such comments from posts like this: > [@All Americans need education in Black studies](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/all-americans-need-education-in-black-studies/978888/29): > > A lot of these objections are starting to sound like when they respond to Black Lives Matter with “All lives matter.” Wrong response! I maintain Black Lives Matter and Black studies matter too. We have to work on our knowledge. Hijacking your own thread with BLM is _messy_. “Wrong response!” is just Jr. Modding, not debate. _Messy_ Stating a strong idea without any details in the OP is witnessing and not debate. _Messy_. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/9 "2023-01-27T16:55:34Z")
No, saying when I think someone is wrong is not junior modding. That’s ridiculous. Telling each other why they’re wrong is the essence of debate. I’m very badly disappointed in your misjudgment of me and your decision to continue insulting me after I asked you not to. Not all debates have to start with “details.” That is also ridiculous. Details can be requested and brought up in the course of the debate. My cite: Thousands of Great Debates that started without “details” and went on just fine, without anyone insulting the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/10 "2023-01-27T16:56:20Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Your judgment about quoting DavidNRockies “out of context” is ridiculous. He was calling my OP “an inherently reasonable proposition.” Nonsense. He was clearly _disagreeing_ with your false equivalence between responses in the thread and the “All Lives Matter” response to BLM. But you selectively quoted him to make it appear that he was agreeing with your analogy. Since you have drawn attention to this and solicited opinions - my opinion is that you should have got a warning for this. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/11 "2023-01-27T16:57:56Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Since you have drawn attention to this - I think you should have got a warning for this. It was close, but I was lenient, again. But now I have a poster that thinks I’m out to get them or something silly. If I was out to get them, they would have had 2 warnings in 2 days. * * * * * * Oh, and I am “attacking” the content of your posts and not you as a poster. So drop this insulting the OP schtick please. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/12 "2023-01-27T16:58:26Z")
I will say, I’m pretty unclear on what the proposal is. It goes back and forth between “every school” to “all Americans” without exception to “a full semester course”. Is this something you believe should be happening in every elementary, middle, and high school? Colleges and universities also? Something that all adults should also be required to attend? Do you think this should be a national law? Whom do you think should write the curricula? I know the details can get hashed out; but right now the proposal seems only one step less fanciful than demanding that “Every person should stop being racist, right now, without exception.” It’s unclear if you mean it in that “Everyone gets a pony” wishful thinking model, or if you believe it’s actually a pragmatic suggestion, or if it’s a thought experiement, or something else. “Messy” might be a good description. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/13 "2023-01-27T16:59:48Z")
WTF? Now who’s junior modding? Do you all see this? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/14 "2023-01-27T17:01:02Z")
Yes, I really meant it as a serious proposal. What’s so hard to see about that? If I didn’t really mean it, I wouldn’t have said it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/15 "2023-01-27T17:01:10Z")
Discussion of mod actions in ATMB is absolutely not junior modding. It’s the one place where we’re allowed to discuss moderator action. The correct question is “WTF? Now who’s stifling debate? Do you all see this?” ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/16 "2023-01-27T17:01:43Z")
That is not Jr. Modding. Why don’t you just let this thread die off now. Reread your posts back in the other thread and maybe you’ll see what many of us are seeing. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/17 "2023-01-27T17:02:46Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Now who’s junior modding? This is the forum where we express or _opinions_ about moderation. You have solicited those opinions by starting this thread, and I am giving them. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/18 "2023-01-27T17:02:50Z")
Oh, baloney. Since when is a poster allowed to call for a warning against another poster? Never that I’ve ever seen around here. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/19 "2023-01-27T17:03:43Z")
Since forever in ATMB. If you’ve not seen it, that’s on you. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905/20 "2023-01-27T17:05:33Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Oh, baloney. Since when is a poster allowed to call for a warning against another poster? Never that I’ve ever seen around here. The only WTF is that you’ve been around this long but you don’t seem to know how anything works here. I certainly have no personal agenda against you, and I fully support your GD proposal (in some form) for what it’s worth. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stifling-debate-without-justification/978905.md?page=2)