# STII-Wrath of Khan: Did Khan have a legit gripe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 28, 2015, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129 "2015-08-28T01:33:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/81 "2015-08-28T17:23:26Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Kirk vs, Khan would make a _hell_ of an episode of Judge Judy. That sounds so like something we might see on “Robot Chicken”. ---
**Author:** ![Gothic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Gothic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gothic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/82 "2015-08-28T19:55:03Z")
I thought it was the moon that exploded. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/83 "2015-08-28T20:06:03Z")
> [@Gothic](#): > > I thought it was the moon that exploded. That comes later, ST-VI:TUC and was [Praxis](http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Praxis) . ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/84 "2015-08-28T20:10:23Z")
Of course, the reboot changed up that, as well. Hard to keep up with multiple timelines. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/85 "2015-08-28T20:38:16Z")
> [@Gothic](#): > > I thought it was the moon that exploded. In the novel, Ceti Alpha V was a planet, and Ceti Alpha VI was its moon. (Or maybe the other way around. I never did figure out how Trek writers assigned the Roman numerals.) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/86 "2015-08-28T20:40:01Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Point of clarification: not prosthetic. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > His chest was REAL goddamnit! I got it already! I already apologized to the nice fellow’s ghost. What do I gotta do? Cut off one of my own studly nips? What can I say? I was repeating a (plausible!) UL that I read online somewhere. The plausible ones are the worst! ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/87 "2015-08-28T20:41:26Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > How the hell does a tarp or a piece of shelter wall become “inoperable?” 25th Century Ikea stuff. Sure, you’ll get the tarp. But the instructions will be a mess. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/88 "2015-08-28T20:47:55Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > 25th Century Ikea stuff. > > Sure, you’ll get the tarp. But the instructions will be a mess. The instructions will be in Andorian ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/89 "2015-08-28T20:51:04Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > The instructions will be in Andorian And it will reference slots and other pieces. For a TARP. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/90 "2015-08-28T21:10:02Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That sounds so like something we might see on “Robot Chicken”. _Robot Chicken_ did one with Kirk Cameron, Bill Shatner, and Ricardo Montalban called “Two Kirks, a Khan, and a Pizza Place.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/91 "2015-08-28T21:41:51Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I can picture him grabbing Tyrell and Chekov when they stumble into the _Botany Bay_ sections (this is actual a minor plot hole with _Space Seed_ - in addition to Khan recognizing Chekov, even though the character had not yet been introduced into the series, Khan discarded the _Botany Bay_ shortly after seizing the _Enterprise_. There was no indication Kirk went back for it or any part of it after regaining control) but once he realized who they were, he should have asked for evacuation and relocation, rather than gone all “eel” on them. As soon as he did that, his concerns didn’t matter nearly as much as the need to kill him and fast. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Khan recognizing Chekov is not a plot hole. Chekov never got an introductory episodes, so we don’t know when he joined the crew the way we know when, say, the traitor Ro Larren joined the E-D. There’s no real to think he didn’t graduate Starfleet Academy at 20 or so and was a night-shift officer on board the Enterprise during the first season. [http://albeshiloh.com/untoldvoyages4.jpg](http://albeshiloh.com/untoldvoyages4.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/92 "2015-08-28T22:34:33Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Hugo award-winner Vonda McIntire. Yeah, and both Gore and Obama won Nobel Prizes. What’s your point? :dubious: 😕 (Other than there is a God, and He has a warped sense of humor?) ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/93 "2015-08-28T23:13:46Z")
Don’t be too harsh on Vonda McIntyre. At least she did give Sulu his first name, even though it took a decade for it to become canon. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/94 "2015-08-29T00:31:56Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Kirk vs, Khan would make a _hell_ of an episode of Judge Judy. > I could see Khan wearing a Hawaiian shirt, open wide to the navel and showing his pecs. “Mr. Khan, would you wear that shirt to church?” ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/95 "2015-08-29T00:54:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Robot Chicken did one with Kirk Cameron, Bill Shatner, and Ricardo Montalban called “Two Kirks, a Khan, and a Pizza Place.” [This trumps that.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iauuuhpSfRQ) As for **Moidalize’s** post and its link, I’ve always agreed. I read one well-written fanfic from Marla McGivers’ point of view, which describes Chekov trying to lead a rescue mission from his own detail on the ship. The group got caught, and Chekov got a whack in the face from Khan for his backtalk, but Chekov laughed in Khan’s face and asked how such a so-called “superior” man couldn’t even keep his temper. For his bravery and ingenuity, he got promoted to bridge detail. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/96 "2015-08-29T09:31:52Z")
I like the idea that Kirk didn’t rat on Khan at all. He practiced that so-called “cowboy diplomacy,” after all. Genetic modified humans might be able to survive if they were peaceful (like Bashir), but I think they would have been killed ruthlessly if they were seen as a thread. Especially if it’s the guy who started the Eugenics wars that led to the distrust of augments. Plus, I just like the dramatic potential. Kirk did him a solid, and the thanks he gets is TWOK. ---
**Author:** ![kobayashi\_maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5fc32e/32.png) [@kobayashi\_maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kobayashi_maru)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/97 "2015-08-29T21:25:34Z")
Khan:" ‘Admiral?’ ‘Admiral!’ ‘Admiral’… Never told you how Admiral Kirk sent 70 of us into exile in this barren sandheap, with only the contents of these cargo bays to sustain us.". they were cargo bays, people. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/98 "2015-08-29T21:42:57Z")
> [@kobayashi\_maru](#): > > Khan:" ‘Admiral?’ ‘Admiral!’ ‘Admiral’… Never told you how Admiral Kirk sent 70 of us into exile in this barren sandheap, with only the contents of these cargo bays to sustain us.". they were cargo bays, people. little late to the thread are we ? Were you caught in the zone? ---
**Author:** ![buckgully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb9ed0/32.png) [@buckgully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buckgully)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/99 "2015-08-29T22:37:47Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > How the hell does a tarp or a piece of shelter wall become “inoperable?” > > No, the Enterprise either doesn’t carry things that any sane captain would make sure were in the Supply Room, or Kirk is the most incompetent Captain in Starfleet. Of course he’s the most incompetent Captain in Starfleet. Would anyone watch the show “Jed Anderson: Most Competent Captain in Starfleet”? Every episode would be about the him requesting ships to come haul away the people who tried but utterly failed to take over the ship. “Starfleet command: this is the USS Pistachio. We have 14 Klingons, 9 Romulans, 6 Andorrans and 23 Space Hippies to be transferred to a prison planet. Also, we have successfully negotiated with the unknowable space entity The Tremendous Omm for the rights to settle colonists on his planet. He said he’ll bake each one a cake for their birthday. We also verified that he means that sincerely and that he’s not going to eat them or anything like that. He’s actually pretty cool. Captain Anderson out.” ---
**Author:** ![kobayashi\_maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5fc32e/32.png) [@kobayashi\_maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kobayashi_maru)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129/100 "2015-08-29T23:59:52Z")
I guess. My wife came across this discussion and was telling me about it when I suddenly remembered the cargo bays line and thought I’d help. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stii-wrath-of-khan-did-khan-have-a-legit-gripe/729129.md?page=6)