# Still support nuke power plants? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2011, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647 "2011-03-14T11:56:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/321 "2011-03-17T08:34:04Z")
That Wikipedia article also says that regarding Ernest Sternglass and the 430 infants study: > [@](#): > > This research has been frequently criticized by local, state and federal environmental and health agencies, when the results of his research on the health effects of low level radiation could not be verified by peer review.[6] Sternglass has been accused of using faulty methodology, including selection bias, in his research.[1] ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/322 "2011-03-17T12:33:58Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > … nuclear power as an industrial concern has killed fewer people than any other method. A helluva lot fewer people than coal. Nuclear power incidents are rare and _dramatic_. Most deaths associated with coal power are mundane. Oh sure there is the occasional big mining accident that gets a few days of headlines, but most are just the day in day out industrial event, the early heart attacks, the cancers … there are tens of thousands of them so they are boring, they are background noise. So who cares? You may as well care more about the thousands of poor urban Black kids being killed by guns than the several middle class kids killed in one school shooting. Sheesh. Who cares about that? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/323 "2011-03-17T13:02:54Z")
> [@TravisFromOR](#): > > You know who else was against walk-in humidors? [Bill Clinton?](http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/time/1998/09/14/affair.state.html) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/324 "2011-03-17T13:07:59Z")
I was a little bit :rolleyes: at **Shodan** ’s lame joke, but at least it’s better than more anti-science spew from **gonzomax**. I guess here’s as good a place as any to say that I’ve lost what remaining faith I had in traditional news organizations after this event. There has been all kinds of crazy misinformation and scaremongering, pretty much across the board, including from news organizations that I formerly thought of as being quite reliable. NPR’s Facebook feed yesterday posted a request for people to share their memories of “the first time you became aware of the threat of nuclear annihilation.” Yeah, that’s helpful. ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/325 "2011-03-17T13:39:26Z")
I’ll be on the lookout for more honest and/or reliable news sources after this is over. I’m getting my news exclusively from the internet because I can only imagine how laughably overwrought this is being portrayed on television from the networks and cable news. Unfortunately [MSNBC.com](http://MSNBC.com) and others on the net aren’t much better about checking their facts over this. And now TIME is getting on the bandwagon: THIS IS THE WORST NUCLEAR DISASTER SINCE CHERNOBYL!!! Wow I guess I’ve lived in a cave for the past 25 years. I’m not aware of the other nuclear disasters between Chernobyl and now. Can someone help me out? ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/326 "2011-03-17T13:41:42Z")
Why is this a coal vs nuclear debate? If you’re building new plants in the US, run them off natural gas. There’s a glut of it and the price is low. The plant design is much simpler and it’s more environmentally friendly in every way. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/327 "2011-03-17T13:44:10Z")
I don’t think the news reporting is any different than they have been for the past couple of decades. It is a function of the 24 hour news cycle - get-it-out-fast is more important than get-it-right, because tomorrow morning there will be a whole slew of “updates” and everyone will forget everything that was said today. Sweeps week now happens fifty-two times a year. Add to that Facebook updates and tweeting and cell phones and “omg my BFF says its the CIA g2g” and people are forming, or reinforcing, opinions based on incomplete information. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sablicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Sablicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sablicious)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/328 "2011-03-17T13:52:07Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Still support nuke power plants? ‘Clean’ nuclear power – maybe. That is, Themite nucelar power. ‘Standard’ nuke power is merely a foil for nuclear armipotance in that 95% of the nuclear material remains unused for actual power generation and becomes weapons grade Uranium 235 or Plutonium. This is why many countries take such a shine to nuclear power, despite its inherent risks: ‘_You can’t be a real country unless you have some nuclear weapons_’ -Frank Zapper ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/329 "2011-03-17T13:52:56Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I understand you are doing a Devil’s Advocate so not busting your chops. That said: > > There are LOTS of things that our industrial society tolerates yet causes mayhem on an epic scale. > > Remember the Bhopal Disaster? > > I cited earlier (here or another thread going on now) that a [dam break in China](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banqiao_Dam) killed 170,000. Maybe as many as 230,000. > > The Texas City Disaster in 1947 killed near 600 people and laid waste to a huge area ([ship filled with fertilizer blew up](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_City_Disaster)). > > How about [Love Canal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal) in the US? Toxic crap messing up a large area. > > The list is long. > > People killed in the US by nuclear energy? **Zero.** > > Why people like Gonzo keep railing against it is beyond me. > > There are lots and lots of provable damage done by industry and nukes isn’t even a blip. Even if you include Chernobyl (IIRC around 4000 deaths associated with it) nuclear energy is still, far and away, the safest power there is. > > Can nuclear plants cause mayhem? You bet. > > But… > > Modern designs are far safer than the 40 year old design that is blowing up in Japan, > > Further, there are inherently safe designs (i.e. physics makes them safe) on the table. They have other issues (cost/operation) but they can work. > > Bottom line is for all of the angst nuclear power as an industrial concern has killed fewer people than any other method. A helluva lot fewer people than coal. If the deaths must be confined to the US, do not use Bhopal and China as examples. You’re kinda invalidating your whole argument. Love Canal, and nuclear power plants are both places that work with nasty toxic chemicals, and can contaminate large areas. They are very much the same in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/330 "2011-03-17T15:25:20Z")
If you guys learn nothing else from this event, I hope you learn the government and the corporation in charge have lied every single day. This thing has been spiraling out of control since day one. It has not gotten better. Today they discovered the workers who are giving their lives in a vain attempt to solve the problem, are over 4 times the radiation limit allowed. So they changed the limit with a wave of their hands. In America it is the same. The industry covers up and lies. They do not allow dissenting evidence . Anybody who attempts to give evidence or testimony that contradicts the official position is called names and insulted. You guys will repeat the insults as fact. The dissenters always have an axe to grind. Yet you are dumb enough to believe the government and the nuke operators have no reason to lie. You can trust them. I understand people like to cling to hope. But dropping water from a helicopter seems ;like a good idea? The rods need 30 feet of water covering them up. At least figure out that the helicopter drops are wasteful and desperate. The US will not allow their people within 50 miles of the reactors. Japan does not. Japan does not want their citizens to know how bad it is. Money doesn’t talk it swears and it lies. It is your job to discriminate. Do not repeat official positions like biblical truths handed down from on high. They do not work for you. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/331 "2011-03-17T15:33:42Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > Why is this a coal vs nuclear debate? > > If you’re building new plants in the US, run them off natural gas. There’s a glut of it and the price is low. The plant design is much simpler and it’s more environmentally friendly in every way. A very reasonable point. It must be remembered however that it was only three years ago that there was no “glut” of it and that it cost about three times as much. Will it stay as plentiful and thus cheap long term? [Maybe,](http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/ieo/nat_gas.html) depending on how you define long term. North America is doing okay with natural gas and America’s imports of it come _mostly_ from Canada, but the biggest reserves are still the ME and Russia. North America has only 319 trillion out of the 6609 trillion cf of worldwide reserves. That’s under 5% and we use a much larger fraction of the world’s energy. And while “Worldwide, the reserves-to-production ratio is estimated at 60 years” is reassuring for now, an all out reliance on natural gas would both require reliance on the ME producers and Russia (especially for the EU) and not be a true long term solution. It also may represent an major greenhouse gas and pollution improvement over coal, but loses in that competition with nuclear or renewables. Short to medium term natural gas power plants replacing coal ones, beginning with the oldest and dirtiest ones seems a no-brainer. Natural gas is cheap for now at least. Longer term we still need to add in a variety of other approaches. I still believe that nuclear should be a part of that mix, along with renewables as is appropriate to each locale. My reservation with nuclear remains not safety but it’s being, or not being, an economically sound approach. **Gonzo** , I do not blindly trust corporations and brought TEPCO’s past history of cover-ups to this discussion. But neither do I prefer to believe whatever hysteria someone dishes up as the to be believed alternative to government statements. So far I have seen no evidence anything other than the media hysteria machine spiraling out of control. I see a very serious situation being handled under very trying circumstances and so far … being handled. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/332 "2011-03-17T15:58:22Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] If you guys learn nothing else from this event, I hope you learn the government and the corporation in charge have lied every single day. [/QUOTE] I’ve learned a lot about how deep seated the hysteria over nuclear still is. Those anti-nuke folks seriously did their job well…they have so completely poisoned the well that when an event like this happens they can turn things about to show that nuclear is the biggest danger to human life out there and MUST BE STOPPED!! And people are eating it up and buying the bullshit. > [@](#): > > This thing has been spiraling out of control since day one. Since the 9.0 scale sustained earthquake and tsunami? You are right, it’s been spiraling out of control since then with 10’s of thousands of Japanese dead (afaik zero from radiation or the effects of the damaged plant) and many thousands homeless and looking for adequate shelter, food, clean water and medicine. It’s a disaster on a monumental scale. Luckily in all this the nuclear power plant has yet to fail and is still holding on, giving at a minimum time for people to be evacuated. Too bad the earthquake and tsunami didn’t do that, eh? > [@](#): > > It has not gotten better. Even if this is the case, it’s not gotten substantially worse yet either. Sure, they could still get hit with another series of aftershocks and things could get worse, but so far they are either stable or improving on most things. Still, 10’s of thousands are dead and the gods know what the final count will be. It’s been a horrible time for the Japanese people, and this focus and hysteria on the nuclear power plant does them a great disservice. > [@](#): > > Today they discovered the workers who are giving their lives in a vain attempt to solve the problem, are over 4 times the radiation limit allowed. IIRC, they all volunteered, and in fact many had to be ordered to leave. Has any of them died from radiation exposure? 10’s of thousands of their fellow citizens have from this disaster…probably people these guys know and perhaps some of their loved ones. > [@](#): > > So they changed the limit with a wave of their hands. Who is ‘they’ and do you have a FUCKING CITE? > [@](#): > > They do not allow dissenting evidence . Anybody who attempts to give evidence or testimony that contradicts the official position is called names and insulted. You guys will repeat the insults as fact. And yet your ‘evidence’ that this is the case has thus far been less than convincing, except to the faithful who are already convinced. It’s on par with a lot of the Truther evidence presented to ‘prove’ that the WTC buildings were brought down with controlled demolition, or that the Pentagon was attacked with a cruise missile, etc etc. > [@](#): > > The dissenters always have an axe to grind. Yet you are dumb enough to believe the government and the nuke operators have no reason to lie. You can trust them. Too ridiculous to even bother going over at this point, except to say that at least this made me laugh out loud thinking of 'dopers like this. > [@](#): > > I understand people like to cling to hope. But dropping water from a helicopter seems ;like a good idea? The rods need 30 feet of water covering them up. At least figure out that the helicopter drops are wasteful and desperate. The thing is, why do you suppose your uninformed opinion means anything on this? Are you a nuclear specialist? Do you even know what the helicopters are doing or trying to achieve? Do you know or understand the range of options they are looking at? Based on past posts from you, I’d go with ‘no…not a clue’ as the right answer. > [@](#): > > The US will not allow their people within 50 miles of the reactors. Do you have a cite? > [@](#): > > Japan does not want their citizens to know how bad it is. And yet they are giving regular reports that detail how things are going. Oh, that’s right…your knee jerks anytime a government says something about nuclear (it’s ironic that it doesn’t jerk when the government tells you other stuff). Here’s the thing…until you can show some kind of proof that the Japanese government is substantially lying about what’s going on there that consists of more than some off the wall blogs and some pictures that we are supposed to look at to see that things are worse than indicated, the default position is to at least LISTEN to what they are saying. Thus far you have been singularly unsuccessful in demonstrating that the situation is different than what the Japanese government is saying it is. -XT ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/333 "2011-03-17T16:09:43Z")
> **[HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News](https://www.huffpost.com/?err_code=404&err_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.com%2F2011%2F03%2F17%2Fjapan-nuclear-power-scandals_n_836970.html)** > > Read the latest headlines, news stories, and opinion from Politics, Entertainment, Life, Perspectives, and more. The US has come up different radiation levels and we are not allowing our people within 50 miles. Our military has no financial stake in the reactors nor do they have to support the Japanese energy corporations. [New power line could restore cooling systems at Fukushima Daiichi plant](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fgw-japan-quake-daiichi-20110317,0,5721172.story) Here is the 50 cite. XT do you know nothing. Crap read a little. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/334 "2011-03-17T16:14:09Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Luckily in all this the nuclear power plant has yet to fail and is still holding on, giving at a minimum time for people to be evacuated. Too bad the earthquake and tsunami didn’t do that, eh? This is why I oppose [wave power](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_power) - between this disaster and the 2004 tsunami the death toll from waves far exceeds that of nuclear power. Wake up, sheeple! Waves will kill you in your sleep! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/335 "2011-03-17T16:21:10Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] [HuffPost - Breaking News, Politics, Entertainment & Opinion](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0)…\_n\_836970.html The US has come up different radiation levels and we are not allowing our people within 50 miles. Our military has no financial stake in the reactors nor do they have to support the Japanese energy corporations. [http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo)…,5721172.story Here is the 50 cite. XT do you know nothing. Crap read a little. [/QUOTE] Let’s see. Your first site (from Huffingtonpost…I know liberals love this site, but I’ve found them only a step up from Fox, personally, though that’s neither here nor there) basically just says that the nuclear power industry in Japan has a shady reputation. So what? Do you have any specifics indicating they are lying about THIS event? Because your cite doesn’t show any, merely attempts to draw some sort of connection between past action and current action. As for your second cite, I assume you mean this: > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, the U.S. urges its citizens in Japan to stay at least 50 miles away from the complex. This is what you said and what I asked you for a cite for: [QUOTE=gonzomax] The US will not allow their people within 50 miles of the reactors. [/QUOTE] Do you see the difference in what you claimed and the actual facts? -XT ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/336 "2011-03-17T16:21:45Z")
I can’t really fault anyone who fights to defend nuclear power, or who wants to believe that no matter what happens in Japan, nuclear power is still OK. A safe and abundant source of clean electricity. And electricity is the source of almost all that is good. If you have had your power go out, and especially if it has gone out and stayed out for a while, you might know how different life is with no electricity. Electric power is the crack pipe of civilization. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/337 "2011-03-17T16:23:05Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > (is there a shorthand for millisievert btw? Sheesh), and a fatal does is 3500-5000 millisieverts per/hour. Well, you could use seivert as shorthand for 1000 millisieverts, and type 3.5 - 5 sieverts/hr as a start. “Per/hour” is redundant and potentially confusing anyway, per and / both signify division. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/338 "2011-03-17T16:32:42Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > (is there a shorthand for millisievert btw? Sheesh), and a fatal does is 3500-5000 millisieverts per/hour. Well, you could use seivert as shorthand for 1000 millisieverts, and type 3.5 - 5 sieverts/hr as a start. “Per/hour” is redundant and potentially confusing anyway, per and / both signify division. Finally, dose usually refers to an accumulated exposure over time, so referring to a per hour rate as a fatal dose is problematic. If this rate does indeed result in death, then this should be referred to as a fatal intensity or some such. It is more likely that the fatal dose is 3.5-5 sieverts, so the rate given is fatal given a full hour of exposure. ETA: Wow, how’d it post at the halfway point? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/339 "2011-03-17T16:41:12Z")
Ok, thanks. Like I said, I basically was just taking notes from a news program talking about various doses of radiation, and it could have been translation error or they could have been wrong as well. They did say 3500-5000 millisieverts/hour was a fatal dose, so if that’s wrong then it was on them (I can see what you are saying and it makes more sense that it would be accumulated exposure, and when your dose reaches 3500-5000 you are in the red zone and the chance of death goes up quite a bit). According to this [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/17/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1) article: > [@](#): > > Radiation levels at the plant remained high Thursday evening, but had dropped sharply from the morning. At 4 p.m. (3 a.m. ET), the Japanese Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency reported exposures of 1.6 millisieverts per hour, down from the nearly 3.8 millisieverts per hour TEPCO reported at 9:30 a.m. A typical resident of a developed country receives about 3 millisieverts per year. That’s a lot lower than the news show I was watching was reporting. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/340 "2011-03-17T16:46:25Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > If you guys learn nothing else from this event, I hope you learn the government and the corporation in charge have lied every single day. This thing has been spiraling out of control since day one. You are correct - we have absolutely no control over earthquakes or tsunamis. OH, wait - you mean the nuclear plant, not the _actual_ disasters that have killed tens of thousands of people. > [@](#): > > It has not gotten better. Today they discovered the workers who are giving their lives in a vain attempt to solve the problem, are over 4 times the radiation limit allowed. So they changed the limit with a wave of their hands. WHICH limit? The limit for civilians? For nuclear workers? For nuclear workers in an emergency? There are _several_ different exposure limits, and that’s not even getting into hourly vs. annual vs. lifetime limits. I will also remind you that those workers are _volunteers_ - AND more informed than YOU are about the risks and the situation. They went in knowing full well what the risks were. Rather a noble sacrifice, much like those who sacrificed themselves for the greater good at Chernobyl (many of whom, by the way, _weren’t_ informed of the risk prior to going in) or those who stayed on duty at TMI. > [@](#): > > In America it is the same. The industry covers up and lies. They do not allow dissenting evidence . Anybody who attempts to give evidence or testimony that contradicts the official position is called names and insulted. Bullshit. “Dissenting” positions are allowed _if they are backed up by reputable facts_. So far, your strongest case is a pair of untrained amateurs going house to house saying “is anyone sick?” which is just gossip and rumor. THAT’s why no one takes you seriously, you don’t have serious evidence. > [@](#): > > Yet you are dumb enough to believe the government and the nuke operators have no reason to lie. You can trust them. Oh, I know they have motivation to lie… but just because someone _can_ lie does not mean they will do so. And I suspect a lot of what you are calling “lying” is more uncertainty or simply not having solid information. > [@](#): > > I understand people like to cling to hope. But dropping water from a helicopter seems ;like a good idea? The rods need 30 feet of water covering them up. At least figure out that the helicopter drops are wasteful and desperate. Sure… that’s why we don’t use helicopters to drop water on forest fires either… oh, wait… The fuel rod pools are that big, you know. Sure, large tanks, but having a go at doing it with a helicopter - which has the advantage of allowing distance between the operators and the Bad Stuff, and also getting them to and away from the problem area quickly, were worth a try and may have done some good. You’re all upset because they can’t fix it NOW NOW NOW! No, YESTERDAY! > [@](#): > > The US will not allow their people within 50 miles of the reactors. Factually incorrect. The US _recommended_ that civilians evacuated to at least 50 miles away, but is in no way enforcing that limit. And that applies _only_ to civilians, military personnel have been and may well be ordered closer again as part of managing the situation. > [@](#): > > Japan does not. Japan does not want their citizens to know how bad it is. Japan doesn’t want mass panic. It HAS been briefing its citizens on the situation, evacuating them, testing massive numbers of people for exposure so we _know_ who is at risk instead of just guessing, distributing treatment as appropriate, and in every other way attempting to deal with this situation rationally and calmly and as effectively as possible. Don’t think they’re effective enough? Well, that’s arguably, but people and governments have limits, especially after being hit with two massive natural disasters. Sorry, humanity is not god-like. In other words - calm down, man. Turn off the news, take a break, chill out. Yes, it’s serious and horrible and all sorts of things, but you’re working yourself up into a frenzy about something you, personally, have no control over. That’s not healthy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647.md?page=18)