# Still support nuke power plants? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2011, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647 "2011-03-14T11:56:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/341 "2011-03-17T17:05:22Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Let’s see. Your first site (from Huffingtonpost…I know liberals love this site, but I’ve found them only a step up from Fox, personally, though that’s neither here nor there) basically just says that the nuclear power industry in Japan has a shady reputation. So what? Do you have any specifics indicating they are lying about THIS event? Because your cite doesn’t show any, merely attempts to draw some sort of connection between past action and current action. > > As for your second cite, I assume you mean this: > > This is what you said and what I asked you for a cite for: > > Do you see the difference in what you claimed and the actual facts? Can you see the difference.? Yes it is the same in America. The \energy corporations lied to the people and covered up for generations. > > -XT No. The military follow orders . They are over 50 miles away. The civilians have been almost totally evacuated. You cannot dismiss the Huffpo and thenpretendy you are not doing it. You are. But Ariana Huffington does not write the articles, They are mostly written by people in the field. It does not say the Japanese nuclear industry has a shady rep. It says they have lied and covered up for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/342 "2011-03-17T17:12:44Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] No. The military follow orders . They are over 50 miles away. The civilians have been almost totally evacuated. [/QUOTE] _sigh_ Your cite merely says “Meanwhile, the U.S. urges its citizens in Japan to stay at least 50 miles away from the complex”. You claimed that the US ‘would not allow’…that’s completely different. So…you don’t have a cite that backs up what you claimed. It’s as simple as that. > [@](#): > > You cannot dismiss the Huffpo and thenpretendy you are not doing it. You are. But Ariana Huffington does not write the articles, They are mostly written by people in the field. Sure I can because the article you cited doesn’t show anything. It attempts to make a connection that may or may not be there but that does nothing to back it up except to point to things that happened years or in one case a decade ago. IOW, again, you have presented no evidence to back up your claims that the Japanese government is deliberately lying to either it’s population or the world about what’s going on. > [@](#): > > It does not say the Japanese nuclear industry has a shady rep. It says they have lied and covered up for a long time. Which is essentially the same thing, and in either case means nothing about the current situation and the claims you made which you have failed, once again, to backup. For all I know you may be right and the Japanese government and the nuclear agency and nuclear industry in Japan is lying through their teeth, and everything they are saying is a distortion or an outright lie…but you have singularly failed to prove any of that. -XT ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/343 "2011-03-17T17:32:50Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > (is there a shorthand for millisievert btw? Sheesh) mSv ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/344 "2011-03-17T17:37:38Z")
The conflicting and uncertain reporting about radiation levels is just absurd. But when workers in radiation suits leave, you can be sure THEY know what the readings are. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/345 "2011-03-17T19:31:43Z")
I am concerned with the goals here, which seem to be scattered and sundry, with assumptions to be made in support of goals that are not explicit. In the absence of stated goals, it seems an unstated consensus that what we really want is business as usual, just with nuclear power or some blend of nuke and gas. We are ignoring the obvious, and that is that we have built a profligate, out of control consumerist economy, and the only things we argue about is how to feed Mammon, not whether or not we should be enslaved. Howzabout we dial it back to say, 10? On our way to maybe 6 or 7? The first challenge isn’t changing our environment to suit ourselves, but to change ourselves to suit our environment. Before we can even guess at what drastic measures may be required, we have to know what we can do. Just how stupid and greedy are we?.. we need to know that. Now, I must admit, this is the view from moonbat planet, and we don’t have any money. So you’re not going to hear a lot about this, what with the klaxons screaming and the terrible, terrible crisis bearing down on us all, a crisis that might have been avoided if it weren’t for the awesome power of eco-pussies and hippies drowning out the voices of business, their paltry billions crushed by our tie-dye shirt industry. Save, of course, for smug, self-congratulatory crap about how greenly Exxon and BP are raping the planet. If we build dangerous means of producing energy simply to maintain business as usual, we have only managed to keep our nest by shitting in it. We are the problem, and we are the solution. Been saying this stuff for about forty years now, to anyone who would listen. Its taking a lot longer than we thought, and we could use your help. If you’ve nothing better to do, or another planet to live on. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/346 "2011-03-17T19:41:45Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > _sigh_ Your cite merely says “Meanwhile, the U.S. urges its citizens in Japan to stay at least 50 miles away from the complex”. You claimed that the US ‘would not allow’…that’s completely different. So…you don’t have a cite that backs up what you claimed. It’s as simple as that. > > Sure I can because the article you cited doesn’t show anything. It attempts to make a connection that may or may not be there but that does nothing to back it up except to point to things that happened years or in one case a decade ago. IOW, again, you have presented no evidence to back up your claims that the Japanese government is deliberately lying to either it’s population or the world about what’s going on. > > Which is essentially the same thing, and in either case means nothing about the current situation and the claims you made which you have failed, once again, to backup. For all I know you may be right and the Japanese government and the nuclear agency and nuclear industry in Japan is lying through their teeth, and everything they are saying is a distortion or an outright lie…but you have singularly failed to prove any of that. > > -XT Yesterday the US government ordered an evacuation of all American citizens within a 50 mile radius of the plants. Is that clear enough for you? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/347 "2011-03-17T20:24:35Z")
NM…misread what you were saying there. It’s still wrong unless you have a cite demonstrating that the US is forcibly evacuating people from within a 50 mile radius. I’ve seen nothing indicating that this is happening, merely that the US is providing a means for US citizens in that area TO evacuate and strongly urging them to do so. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/348 "2011-03-17T20:46:01Z")
**gonzo** , do you believe the government when they say people should not go within fifty miles of the reactors? Why or why not? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/349 "2011-03-17T21:25:47Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > No. The military follow orders . They are over 50 miles away. The civilians have been almost totally evacuated. That sort of directly contradicts what President Obama said this afternoon on TV, describing American assistance in using helicopters to dump water on the overheated parts of the complex. Oddly enough, I’m more inclined to believe the US military is helping out with choppers and personnel than I am to believe you in this matter. Maybe its the video tape of the water drops that does this, or maybe it’s your total inability to provide sources for your side. Maybe it’s both. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/350 "2011-03-17T21:53:17Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I can’t really fault anyone who fights to defend nuclear power, or who wants to believe that no matter what happens in Japan, nuclear power is still OK. A safe and abundant source of clean electricity. And electricity is the source of almost all that is good. > > If you have had your power go out, and especially if it has gone out and stayed out for a while, you might know how different life is with no electricity. > > Electric power is the crack pipe of civilization. That’s like saying clean drinking water is the crack pipe of civilization. It should be a basic human right, not a luxury. That doesn’t mean unlimited wasteful water use, nor unlimited wasteful electricity use, but I believe we, as a civilization, are way beyond “electricity is a luxury!” ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/351 "2011-03-17T21:56:01Z")
Cheap clean water is like the the air. Unlike electricity, you die without water. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/352 "2011-03-17T21:58:13Z")
[QUOTE=Broomstick] That sort of directly contradicts what President Obama said this afternoon on TV, describing American assistance in using helicopters to dump water on the overheated parts of the complex. Oddly enough, I’m more inclined to believe the US military is helping out with choppers and personnel than I am to believe you in this matter. Maybe its the video tape of the water drops that does this, or maybe it’s your total inability to provide sources for your side. Maybe it’s both. [/QUOTE] Oh, come now. You are going to believe the evidence of your own eyes and that of Obama (he works for the GOVERNMENT for the gods sake!) over that of a poster with the sort of unvarnished track record of someone like gonzomax! I mean, that seem… …er…well, that seems perfectly reasonable to me. In fact, even without the evidence of your eyes or the assertions of Obama or any other proofs what-so-ever, it seems like a good bet… 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/353 "2011-03-17T22:01:58Z")
[QUOTE=FXMastermind] Cheap clean water is like the the air. Unlike electricity, you die without water. [/QUOTE] I hate to break this to you, chief, but unless you are posting this from some increasingly rare bastion of stone age tribal-dome, without electricity you will die just as surly as if you didn’t have water or air…though, granted, it might be a worse way to die than to be without air, which at least would be relatively quick. In fact, without electricity you most likely wouldn’t have water in any case…at least not clean uncontaminated water. It might take a little while longer for you (and billions of others) to shuffle off without electricity than it would without air, but shuffle off you and they and all the rest of us most likely would without it. I know this is going to be a crushing blow, so I’m trying to be gentle here. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/354 "2011-03-17T22:03:28Z")
Another good update at the [MIT NSE Blog](http://mitnse.com/). Nice post elucidator. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/355 "2011-03-17T22:05:06Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Cheap clean water is like the the air. Unlike electricity, you die without water. How many people in the US would have potable water without electricity? Turn off the electricity and 300 million Americans will all find their own, natural, clean water source? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/356 "2011-03-17T22:49:20Z")
Actually, my well _could_ be converted to a hand pump pretty easily… ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/357 "2011-03-18T06:49:52Z")
Just to return for a second to the question in the OP: If anything, I’ve become significantly _less_ sceptical to nuclear reactors and safety after this mess. It doesn’t mean that I trust the power companies’ bean-counting CEOs any more, or that I’ve found a way to dispose of the spent fuel, but in terms of resiliency towards major natural disasters, I’m more confident in today’s reactors. And, just for the perspective: Except for the local environment around the reactor, [my country was one of the more affected ones by the fallout after Chernobyl](http://www.progettohumus.it/chernobyl.php?name=mappe2). ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/358 "2011-03-18T16:50:15Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > Just to return for a second to the question in the OP: If anything, I’ve become significantly _less_ sceptical to nuclear reactors and safety after this mess. It doesn’t mean that I trust the power companies’ bean-counting CEOs any more, or that I’ve found a way to dispose of the spent fuel, but in terms of resiliency towards major natural disasters, I’m more confident in today’s reactors. > > And, just for the perspective: Except for the local environment around the reactor, [my country was one of the more affected ones by the fallout after Chernobyl](http://www.progettohumus.it/chernobyl.php?name=mappe2). What a weird conclusion. the reactors used in Japan are all over the world. We have 25 of them in America. That does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling. These reactors have been percolating radioactivity for over a week. Yesterday the radioactivity was at its highest level yet. Workers are dying fighting the blazes. The fire in reactor 3 and 4 are spent fuel rods. That is radioactive waste with no place to go. These rods are sitting in pools around the world at nearly every nuke plant. I do not get all warm and fuzzy over that. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/359 "2011-03-18T16:55:14Z")
I was going to make a joke about radioactive fires making one “warm and fuzzy” but…waaaaay too soon. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/360 "2011-03-18T17:00:37Z")
**gonzo** , let me put this in terms you can understand: nuclear power _might_ kill some of us. Fossil fuels will eventually kill _all_ of us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647.md?page=19)