# Still support nuke power plants? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2011, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647 "2011-03-14T11:56:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 73
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1441 "2011-06-15T01:28:53Z")
**FXMastermind** , your posts about how everyone’s arguments are “crap” (or how you haven’t bothered to read their posts at all) are threadshitting, and your comments about language are off-topic. You will either improve your tone and your responsiveness and become less obnoxious, or you will stop participating in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1442 "2011-06-15T01:45:02Z")
Enough said. Off topic continued here [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13916733&postcount=703](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13916733&postcount=703) ---
**Author:** ![matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@matt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1443 "2011-06-15T02:09:00Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **matt** , honestly why are you bothering even responding to this obvious baiting? There’s a saying about “giving someone enough rope.” ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1444 "2011-06-16T14:44:09Z")
What are the odds of a tsunami hitting Nebraska? Pretty slim. And yet… Airspace Over Flooded Nebraska Nuclear Power Plant Still Closed Read more: [Airspace Over Flooded Nebraska Nuclear Power Plant Still Closed](http://www.businessinsider.com/faa-closes-airspace-over-flooded-nebraska-nuclear-power-plant-2011-6#ixzz1PRvyvth1) Haven’t I been pointing out that the next nuclear accident _wouldn’t_ be caused by an earthquake-tsunami combo? Gee, I’m prophetic. Fire and flooding. No meltdowns yet we know of though, so that’s good news. The big danger seems to be one of those pesky overloaded spend fuel pools. Why is it when nuke plants get into trouble, planes aren’t allowed to fly overhead and take pictures? What do they have to hide? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1445 "2011-06-16T14:49:20Z")
The fact that a really expensive (and potentially very dangerous) nuclear power plant has no flood protection, it’s beyond absurd. They quickly build a temporary wall around part of the facility and then pray. Are you fucking kidding me? And this is America. Imagine how shitty the standards are in other less stable parts of the world. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1446 "2011-06-16T15:03:15Z")
Well, they have earthen berms, and sandbags, so they were adequately prepared for this impossibility that only happens once every 10 billion years, or whatever the nuclear risk-assessors claim. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1447 "2011-06-18T21:27:50Z")
Well as far as the [Nebraska plant](http://www.omaha.com/article/20110617/NEWS01/706179913/0) goes: > [@](#): > > the plant is in a safe cold shutdown and can remain so indefinitely Actually it was last year that the NRC had noted that current conditions had required upgrading flood protections and such upgrades had been in progress. Not quite sure what this episode of inspections working as they should and multiple redundant systems being put in place to provide extra levels of safety is supposed to prove. As to the flight restrictions. The stated answer is > [@](#): > > Elizabeth Ishan Cory, a spokeswoman for the Federal Aviation Administration, said the flight restrictions at Fort Calhoun are intended to keep curiosity seekers out of the immediate vicinity. Planes can still fly near the plant if they have flight plans and are in contact with air traffic controllers. Smaller aircraft are restricted in how close they can get to the plant. > Otherwise, there’s a risk of midair collisions that could jeopardize operations on the ground. Which honestly makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1448 "2011-06-18T21:33:56Z")
And back to the issue of whether or not we should be in support of shutting down nuclear plants and what [the consequences of doing so would be](http://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/06/cmu-20110618.html): > [@](#): > > Shutting down nuclear power plants in the US would have significant economic and environmental consequences, according to a new study by researchers at Carnegie Mellon University and DAI Management Consultants, Inc. Shifting from nuclear to other types of power plants could affect the reliability of the electricity supply, electricity costs, air pollution, carbon emissions, and the reliance on fossil fuels such as coal and natural gas, the researchers said. … > > … Turning off a single large nuclear power plant could require dozens of coal and gas-fired plants to ramp up production to make up the difference, said Paul Fischbeck, a professor of social and decision sciences and engineering and public policy at Carnegie Mellon. > > Replacing the Brown’s Ferry plant in Alabama with a mix of coal and gas power plants would cause CO2 emissions to increase by approximately 24 million tons each year. That’s the same as the annual emissions of over 4 million cars. > > —Paul Fischbeck, a professor of social and decision sciences and engineering and public policy at Carnegie Mellon > If plants that are in tornado alley were shutdown, national coal consumption for power generation would go up over 160 million tons or 16%, at an additional cost of $9 billion more for electricity every year said David Rode, managing director of DAI. > > Given time and enough investment, some of the generation lost by shutting down nuclear plants could be made up by developing renewable resources and improving energy efficiency, but the size of the potential shortfall is daunting, the researchers said. I know … they’re full of crap.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1449 "2011-06-18T23:59:49Z")
I’m still pro-nuclear. Just saying. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1450 "2011-06-19T01:03:41Z")
The true nuclear supporter will still support nuclear power no matter how many reactors meltdown, blow up or leak radiation into the world. I’ve asked them before, and they always avoid answering. How many people, how much land, what is the point you would change your mind? They never answer. Instead they try to talk about coal or relative risk, anything but simply answering the question. The avoidance of even thinking about it is quite telling. Science and logic don’t work like that. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1451 "2011-06-19T01:14:36Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > The true nuclear supporter will still support nuclear power no matter how many reactors meltdown, blow up or leak radiation into the world. I reject your definition of “true”. I’m a true nuclear supporter in the sense that I’m not being dishonest about it, in large part because nuclear power _doesn’t_ lend itself to meltdowns, blow-ups or leaks, or at least not to an extent comparable to the harm of coal and oil. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1452 "2011-06-19T01:19:27Z")
Like I said, no answer. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1453 "2011-06-19T01:20:42Z")
It’s easy to answer the question. Up until Fukushima I supported nuclear power plants, even building new ones. Now I don’t. The cost and risk are too great, especially when lower cost cleaner technology can replace nuclear power. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1454 "2011-06-19T01:47:00Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > The cost and risk are too great, especially when lower cost cleaner technology can replace nuclear power. I have my doubts you’ve fully and fairly considered the costs and risks, and I suspect an overly optimistic view of the ability of “cleaner” (wind/solar/tidal/hydroelectric/etc. I assume) energy sources to feasibly replace nuclear. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1455 "2011-06-19T02:57:02Z")
Maybe the people who actually study and are smart know stuff. > **[Issues](https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/)** ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1456 "2011-06-19T03:03:17Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I’ve asked them before, and they always avoid answering. > > How many people, how much land, what is the point you would change your mind? > > They never answer. Instead they try to talk about coal or relative risk … Again, not a “nuclear supporter” by any objective measure as I do not think it will do much more than preserve its current share in any competition in which true costs are monetized. Not a true supporter or a true Scotsman for that matter. But it is a simple answer to give and I gave it. And I asked you a question in response which you have refused to answer: why do you value deaths caused by coal as less valuable lives to lose than hypothetical deaths from nuclear? What other answer other than “when it is more than there would be without it” could make sense? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1457 "2011-06-19T03:04:10Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Maybe the people who actually study and are smart know stuff. > > [http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/01/nuclear\_power.html](http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/01/nuclear_power.html) Even the author recognizes a place for nuclear, with Yucca Mountain as a waste depot. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1458 "2011-06-19T03:12:37Z")
I find it fascinating that a simple question is so avoided. One nuclear supporter was honest (not on internet) and said even if a nuclear plant melted down and killed his entire family he would still support nuclear power plants. He did however hedge when asked how much land it would take, made uninhabitable by radiation, to get him to change his mind. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1459 "2011-06-19T03:14:04Z")
> [@](#): > > I am not saying here that nuclear power will play no role in the fight to stay below 450 ppm of atmospheric CO2 concentrations and avoid catastrophic climate outcomes. Indeed, I have been including a full wedge of nuclear in my 12 to 14 wedges “solution” to global warming [here](http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/is-450-ppm-or-less-politically-possible-part-2-the-solution/). It may, however, be time to reconsider that, since it is increasingly clear achieving even one wedge of nuclear will be a very time-consuming and expensive proposition, probably costing $6 trillion to $8 trillion and sharply driving up electricity prices. [http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/01/nuclear\_power.html](http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/01/nuclear_power.html) Even when faced with the cold hard facts about costs, nuclear supporters stick to their grim belief system. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647/1460 "2011-06-19T03:14:06Z")
Okay… 1000 square miles of blighted land and 10,000 human deaths. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647.md?page=72) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/still-support-nuke-power-plants/574647.md?page=74)