# Sting vs. The Police - a talent comparison **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 8, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108 "2017-08-08T17:08:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/1 "2017-08-08T17:08:26Z")
A side-discussion broke out in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=832847) regarding how much Andy Summers and Stewart Copeland contributed to the success of the Police as opposed to Sting’s own talents: > [@The Beatles were overrated](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/75): > > Bands are collaborations of musicians, and people working with each other, bouncing ideas off one another, are usually a lot better than the same people would be working by themselves. > > It’s true even with bands with dominant frontmen: take The Police, versus Sting as a solo artist. Whatever Andy Summers and Stewart Copeland contributed (and I’m not denigrating them here; I just don’t know enough about music to understand, let alone evaluate, their contribution), they made Sting as frontman of The Police a hell of a lot better than Sting ever was by himself. > [@The Beatles were overrated](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/76): > > Wait, what? Stings first two solo albums were miles better thsn anything The Police did. He didn’t want to be pigeonholed into a single genre. > [@The Beatles were overrated](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/77): > > To be honest, I think Sting is the most disposable member of the Police (though they all brought their talents and I think needed all three together to make it as they did.) > [@The Beatles were overrated](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/79): > > Then the absolute worst crap got airplay, is all I can say. There was that one song that was basically an op-ed with some music. > > ETA: Just because he didn’t want to be pigeonholed, doesn’t mean he did good stuff outside his pigeonhole. > [@The Beatles were overrated](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/80): > > He chose a band with young jazz musicians with real chops. He wrote literate songs to a rock beat. He went in a completely new direction. I understand that some might not like his music but his talent and vision are undeniable. > [@The Beatles were overrated](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/81): > > Are you saying Copeland and Summers didn’t have “real” chops?!?! Copeland is rightfully a drum god, and Summers was no slouch, either. > [@The Beatles were overrated](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/82): > > You might want to start a separate thread for this topic. This thread was the OP’s toss off of a statement which was not intended for discussion. > > But saying Sting’s stuff was better than the Police, and a move to a new genre (vs a return to his first love, smooth jazz) and meaning it?! That’s discussion-worthy. > > Sting is a brilliant songwriter, a unique voice, and a capable frontman. He is far more musically talented than I am and I am happy for his success. Having said that, he’s an insufferable douchebag who overpacks his lyrics with needless fanciness, and who really, really benefitted from having Copeland’s blueprint for the Police, including the name and approach, which kept Mr Sumner focused on tight pop songs with reggae and other worldbeat influences and away from smooth jazz. But again - better for another thread. I’m a huge fan of both the Police and Sting, and as such, wanted to provide a thread for that discussion to get hashed out properly. I’m no musician myself, so I can’t really speak to how much talent Summers and Copeland brought to the table, but I assume others can. For the very, very little it’s worth, I think Sting’s first solo albums were amazing, but I don’t know that I’d call them miles above the Police’s work. Again, though, I’ll leave that to far greater minds than my own to flesh out. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/2 "2017-08-08T17:13:00Z")
Sting singing Sting’s music is fine. Sting singing Dowland lute songs makes me want to set fire to his lute and possibly him. Deeply mediocre. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/3 "2017-08-08T17:18:12Z")
I think that The Police were a great band and that Sting is a mediocre, annoying solo artist. That’s my opinion. I have noticed something recently that I found interesting. My wife has Sirius XM in her car and listens to a channel called Coffeehouse quite a bit. One of the channel’s specialties is playing unplugged or stripped-down versions of familiar songs whose original versions were more produced. A few Police songs are played frequently on this channel, and I have been struck by how poorly they stand up as songs when removed from the original arrangement and instrumentation. Roxanne, Message In A Bottle, and Every Breath You Take were great Police songs. They are not great songs as delivered by Sting, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/4 "2017-08-08T17:35:51Z")
I have read Sting’s Broken Music (meh) and Andy Summer’s One Train Later (went in with no expectations and found it excellent). - Sting was in a smooth jazz band that he wasn’t leading and wasn’t successful. - Copeland had grown up internatinally since his dad was a CIA bureau chief - he was exposed to a lot of world music. He had been in a proggish rock band that had some success, Curved Air, but wanted more. His brother, head of IRS Records Miles Copeland, suggested that Stewart form a band that had punk roots, but had reggae and worldbeat influences like The Clash was doing, but with Stewart’s superior musicianship. - Stewart recuited Sting, who didn’t know reggae and didn’t like punk but liked that Stewart’s bro ran a label. - they recruited a guitar player - Henry something-Polish - who wasn’t as good musically. They also ran into Summers who was a journeyman guitar player from the generation prior to them, but who didn’t make it when Clapton, Beck, Page, Green and others did. He had been left stranded in CA after a stint with Eric Burden did t pan out and had just come back to the U.K. Henry got fired and The Police toured their asses off to get exposure. - As they got bigger Sting got more famously controlling, showing up with the demos to Ghost in the Machine and saying “this IS the album- it’s done”. Was Sting more talented? Musically, no - but he wrote songs, learned how to make them radio-friendly through his tenure with The Police and the influence of the Copeland brothers, then used that as a platform to return to his first love, smooth jazz. As I said, he is an insufferable douchebag whose lyrics are too fancy by half. That book by Nabokov; I will turn your face to alabaster - ugh. They clank. And his fallback position of “nobody suffers like me” - King of Pain, double-ugh. He got it right the first time or three with So Lonely, Message in a Bottle, etc. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/5 "2017-08-08T17:38:57Z")
Sting wrote great pop songs for The Police, but no matter the band, he’s the least talented musician in it. It was a crime that he got all the royalties for The Police songs because he wrote the lyrics. He didn’t write the guitar or drum parts, which is really what separated the band from the new wave pack. > [@Crotalus](#): > > A few Police songs are played frequently on this channel, and I have been struck by how poorly they stand up as songs when removed from the original arrangement and instrumentation. Roxanne, Message In A Bottle, and Every Breath You Take were great Police songs. They are not great songs as delivered by Sting, IMO. Some of Sting’s solo stuff is okay, but those “covers” are brutal. They really make one appreciate Summers and Copeland. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/6 "2017-08-08T17:48:27Z")
Here’s a fun little bit of The Police trivia: > [@](#): > > Copeland also recorded under the pseudonym Klark Kent, releasing several UK singles in 1978 with one (“Don’t Care”) entering the UK Singles Chart that year, along with an eponymously titled 10-inch album on green vinyl released in 1980. Recorded at Nigel Gray’s Surrey Sound Studio, Copeland played all the instruments and sang the lead vocals himself. Kent’s “Don’t Care”, which peaked at #48 UK in August 1978, actually predates the first chart single by the Police by several months (“Can’t Stand Losing You”, issued in October 1978) as “Don’t Care” was released in early June 1978. Copeland performed _Don’t Care_ on _Top of the Pops_ with Sting and Summers, both of whom wore masks. Not sure who played the drums. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/7 "2017-08-08T17:52:38Z")
Actually, per the OP - talent: - Stewart Copeland is one of the most respected percussionists around. His high hat work changed the game in terms of using them so sophisticatedly in a pop rock setting. He was neck and neck with Neil Peart in all the polls back in the day. Sting’s drummer Omar Hakim is an absolute monster as a jazz hired gun who has played on many chart topping albums, but Copeland is at that level, too. - Andy Summers is a super-talented player. I discussed in the other thread how he was on the cutting edge of using then-new multi effects boards that enabled him to layer his sound and create one of the most identifiable guitar voices of his day. His avant garde solos in songs like Driven to Tears, and his sophisticated use of partial jazz chords and arpeggios (Message in a Bottle; Every Breath) were huge in shaping the sound of Police songs. - Sting / Gordon Sumner is a great bassist. He’s not as good as the other two are at their instruments - I don’t have a specific Sting signature bass voice that comes to mind like Copeland’s high hat work or Summers’s effects and jazz voicings - but he’s damn good and knew how to recruit talent for his solo band. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/8 "2017-08-08T20:27:27Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > - they recruited a guitar player - Henry something-Polish - who wasn’t as good musically. I finally looked this up. Henry something-Corsican = Padovani ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/9 "2017-08-08T20:35:01Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > - Sting / Gordon Sumner is a great bassist. He’s not as good as the other two are at their instruments - I don’t have a specific Sting signature bass voice that comes to mind like Copeland’s high hat work or Summers’s effects and jazz voicings - but he’s damn good and knew how to recruit talent for his solo band. Combined with his singing and song-writing ability, does that raise him up a level at all? Or do you not consider him to be talented in those regards? ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/10 "2017-08-08T20:40:37Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > Combined with his singing and song-writing ability, does that raise him up a level at all? Or do you not consider him to be talented in those regards? Oh yeah, it does. Songwriting is a HUGE thing - but the discussion started on questioning Copeland’s and Summers’ skills on their instruments vs Sting’s smooth jazz band, made up of top-shelf hired guns. Sting can be a great songwriter - that’s what made his career - but would be well served by having someone edit his ponderous lyrics. His vocals are distinctive and suit his songs, so yay for that, but his vocal technique is solid, not spectacular. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/11 "2017-08-08T21:29:40Z")
Not for nothing but I think that “Can’t Stand Losing You” is one of their best songs. Sting had some interesting solo tunes. I’ve always liked “Fortress Around Your Heart” and “Fields Of Gold”, as syrupy as that song is. Of course there’s always “I Hope The Russians Love Their Children” from the Cold War. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/12 "2017-08-09T03:57:27Z")
It’s a tie for me. I liked the Police up until Sycronicity–I think it was the MTV video that soured me on them.😃 Saw them at the Cow Palace in '82, easily one of the best shows I’ve seen. They opened with _Voices Inside My Head_, it was mesmerizing. I really liked Sting’s early solo stuff too, especially _Bring on The Night_. I caught the Nothing But The Sun Tour–another excellent performance. However…nowadays when I think of Sting, the very first thing that comes to mind is a [single line from Dune](https://youtu.be/aNqpdggBfgY). Cracks me up every time. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/13 "2017-08-09T12:29:14Z")
I still like Sting, even though he’s become a bit of a pretentious twat. But IMO he’s less of a pretentious twat than Bono. IMO, YMMV, etc. One gets the feeling that if a person had dinner with both of them, Sting could have a reasonably normal conversation, while Bono would be complaining that your handbag oppresses millions of people in sub-Saharan somewhere. > [@blondebear](#): > > However…nowadays when I think of Sting, the very first thing that comes to mind is a [single line from Dune](https://youtu.be/aNqpdggBfgY). Cracks me up every time. 😃 That movie is burned into the brains of a lot of women who liked Sting… Every time I think of Sting, it’s like [this](http://i.somethingawful.com/u/elpintogrande/october07/brianherbert1.jpg). Which is too bad, because at least in terrible movie _The Bride_, he looked, well, Victorian-hot. Also, my quick search for the unfortunate Sting-in-leather-underwear photo brought up some pics that made him look like Ramsay Bolton’s great-uncle or something. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/14 "2017-08-09T12:46:14Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Here’s a fun little bit of The Police trivia: > > Copeland performed _Don’t Care_ on _Top of the Pops_ with Sting and Summers, both of whom wore masks. Not sure who played the drums. A friend of mine in college had that Klark Kent EP. It was awesome. If you listen to the songs that Copeland wrote on the early Police albums, it sounds very similar. I’ve got a cassette tape of it somewhere that I recorded off of him. Now I need to go find it and have another listen! ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/15 "2017-08-09T12:54:07Z")
I like Sting. I like The Police. I don’t like reggae\*. \*_Wait, that’s a different band_ ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/16 "2017-08-09T14:18:39Z")
Let’s also not forget that Stewart Copeland composed the music for 80s TV show _The Equalizer_ with Edward Woodward. Say what you want about the show - I loved it when I was a kid, doesn’t really hold up now - but the music was fantastic: it really lent the show a distinctive air and was definitely “80s” without being derivative or hackneyed. I think he may have been in an episode, too. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/17 "2017-08-09T14:20:11Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > A friend of mine in college had that Klark Kent EP. It was awesome. If you listen to the songs that Copeland wrote on the early Police albums, it sounds very similar. I’ve got a cassette tape of it somewhere that I recorded off of him. Now I need to go find it and have another listen! It’s on YouTube. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/18 "2017-08-09T14:34:07Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Of course there’s always “I Hope The Russians Love Their Children” from the Cold War. Yeah, that’s the op-ed with some music. Sting says, “I don’t subscribe to his point of view” **twice** in that song. Once would have been bad enough. But _twice?_ ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/19 "2017-08-09T14:55:15Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > It’s on YouTube. Of course. Everything is on YouTube! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/20 "2017-08-09T14:58:59Z")
I endorse everything **WordMan** has written in this thread, but want to add a couple of things: Stewart Copeland is one of the greatest, most versatile and stylistically identifiable drummers working in rock and pop music today. His crisp attacks and mastery of the high hat are traits that many drummers have sought to emulate, as well as his innate grasp (and embracing) of complex polyrhythms. Andy Summers, IMO, is forever stylistically and technically linked to Robert Fripp and Adrian Belew. IMO that says more about his abilities with his instrument than almost anything else will, because those guys are absolutely at the pinnacle for technical ability, experimentation with gear and with musical forms and with an ability to make complex music that is still massively enjoyable and connects with non-musicians. THAT is a rare amalgamation of talents. Sting is a guy who really wanted to be famous and popular and managed to finally be in the right place at the right time all those years ago to finally be able hone his own skills at songwriting and marketing until he found a combination that was gonna work for him. The Police are the greatest reggae band that has ever existed, IMO, but only because The Clash had more variety in their catalog. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108.md?page=2)