# Sting vs. The Police - a talent comparison **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 8, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108 "2017-08-08T17:08:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/21 "2017-08-09T19:34:08Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > A friend of mine in college had that Klark Kent EP. It was awesome. If you listen to the songs that Copeland wrote on the early Police albums, it sounds very similar. I’ve got a cassette tape of it somewhere that I recorded off of him. Now I need to go find it and have another listen! Thanks for mentioning this. I just checked out a Klark Kent (or is it Klerk Kant? I’m finding it under both names) compilation on YouTube and it’s fantastic! A bit quirky, but so much fun and high energy! God, I love Stewart Copeland. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/22 "2017-08-09T22:40:14Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Let’s also not forget that Stewart Copeland composed the music for 80s TV show _The Equalizer_ with Edward Woodward. Say what you want about the show - I loved it when I was a kid, doesn’t really hold up now - but the music was fantastic: it really lent the show a distinctive air and was definitely “80s” without being derivative or hackneyed. > > I think he may have been in an episode, too. He’s also composed a ton of film scores, most notably **Rumble Fish** and **Fresh**. His range as a composer might not be great, but it’s definitely got a very distinctive style that anticipated other rockers-turned-composers Cliff Martinez, Nick Cave and Trent Reznor. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/23 "2017-08-10T04:29:28Z")
I like the fact that Sting wanted to step outside his comfort zone and left the Police. His solo stuff is remarkably different than the Police catalog, he finally left the reggae beats behind and went in a new direction. Sting has always been a good songwriter, more so as time went on in his solo career than when he was with Steve Copeland and Andy Summers. Which songs are better, Police or Sting, for me it’s a case by case basis. Strong, okay and poor stuff can be found in both catalogs. As for OP’S question, no doubt Copeland and Summers contributed to the Police strengths. There are some bands where one member carries the entire talent, but this was not that case. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/24 "2017-08-10T04:39:06Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > I like the fact that Sting wanted to step outside his comfort zone and left the Police. I feel like the Police _was_ outside his comfort zone, and he just stepped back into what he wanted to be doing. Good for him, but I far prefer his work with the Police. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/25 "2017-08-10T10:17:24Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I feel like the Police _was_ outside his comfort zone, and he just stepped back into what he wanted to be doing. Good for him, but I far prefer his work with the Police. Yes, that’s my take, too. **Bo** - thanks and agree. Mentioning Belew and Fripp _does_ pretty much sum it up. Summers is much more of an avant garde guy, in line and working with some of the great creators happening. I remember when I first heard some of Fripp and Summers’ work in their album _I Advance Masked_. Whew. Again, bottom line is that Sting’s bandmates were each world class on their instruments _and_ had their own unique musical voices vs. being versatile hired guns. Sting swapped out in order to have total control, not because his bandmates couldn’t play at the level Sting’s songs needed. It’s great for him that he was in a position to make that move, but yeah, I think he really benefitted from their influence. Last note: I would argue that his move back to smooth jazz was only risky from a Sting Brand Management standpoint. He was pivoting hard into Adult Contemporary. It was an established category featuring hugely successful acts, but was new for Sting. It suited his Nabokov-ier Than Thou pretention almost as much as lute playing. By the time he pushed the Police to Wrapped Around Your Finger, they were a step away from his Dream of the Blue Turtles. **FoisGras** - “Russians” couldn’t capture Sting’s ponderousness (“ponderosity”? “ponderiffic-ness”?? ;)) more. Triple-ugh. Now, on the other hand, Can’t Stand Losing You - \*there’s \*a great lyric. Interesting, funny, light wordplay, not ponderous, with still a Sting-serious heavy undertone. Totally works, and the ska/upbeat groove and fun-busy drum work add to the light feel before going big in the chorus. Imagine that with a horn line playing wistfully through the verses, and a string swell to build up the chorus. ;( smooth jazz downshifts everything; I don’t want a song like that in downshifted form. Yuck. Fortress, IMHO, would’ve benefitted hugely from being a Police song. The other guys would’ve torn Sting’s battlements apart 😉 and added…_something_…to the arrangement I would’ve wanted to hear. Too bad they didn’t do something like that on their reunion tour. But Sting asking Stewart and Andy to play his solo stuff?! Hah! ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/26 "2017-08-10T10:31:26Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Yeah, that’s the op-ed with some music. Sting says, “I don’t subscribe to his point of view” **twice** in that song. Once would have been bad enough. But _twice?_ However bad that was, _We work the black seam_ topped it. “Build machines that they can’t control/And bury the waste in a great big hole” Nooooo! And I say this as a huge fan of both the Police and Sting as a solo artist…but he really did need someone to reign in his occasional excesses of Pompous. The relationship songs like “If I built this fortress” or “Consider me gone” are some of my favourite ever - but even there he’s kind of edging to the melodrama line. The Police stuff is far more understated (“seems I’m not alone in being alone” - really packs a punch) and all the better for it. And there was a lot of sly black humour in the Police that kind of went missing once Sting went solo (though Love is Stronger than Justice almost got it back … but I can’t imaging Sting by himself, say, getting into the relationship between a poor sad gift and his blowup doll, as in “Be my girl”) ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/27 "2017-08-11T13:23:23Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I feel like the Police _was_ outside his comfort zone, and he just stepped back into what he wanted to be doing. Good for him, but I far prefer his work with the Police. I really love [“Synchronicity II”](https://vimeo.com/121089202). Any song about a midlife crisis so intense that it calls Nessie onto dry land is okay by me. Also, 30+ years later, it still sounds \*amazing \*through a good car speaker setup. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/28 "2017-08-11T15:05:23Z")
I’ve heard Sting’s voice described as a “jazz instrument”, and I agree with that. Now, jazz can be melodic, discordant, noodly, or just downright annoying, and Sting hits all of these in different songs. His personality doesn’t concern me. If I paid any attention to that, I’d never listen to Stan Getz. I like a LOT of what Sting does and have several albums that I spin up from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/29 "2017-08-11T15:08:16Z")
I have to admit that I don’t get all of the accusations of pompousness. I actually enjoy that Sting sometimes uses big words in his lyrics, and unlike some of the musicians I listen to, likely actually knows what they mean. They’re far more interesting than most of the crap I tend to hear. Are they occasionally strung together in silly ways? Sure. Very few pop stars have managed to avoid ever falling in that trap. But I don’t consider that the norm with him. ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/30 "2017-08-11T15:10:51Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I have read Sting’s Broken Music (meh) and Andy Summer’s One Train Later (went in with no expectations and found it excellent). > > - Sting was in a smooth jazz band that he wasn’t leading and wasn’t successful. > - Copeland had grown up internatinally since his dad was a CIA bureau chief - he was exposed to a lot of world music. He had been in a proggish rock band that had some success, Curved Air, but wanted more. His brother, head of IRS Records Miles Copeland, suggested that Stewart form a band that had punk roots, but had reggae and worldbeat influences like The Clash was doing, but with Stewart’s superior musicianship. > - Stewart recuited Sting, who didn’t know reggae and didn’t like punk but liked that Stewart’s bro ran a label. > - they recruited a guitar player - Henry something-Polish - who wasn’t as good musically. They also ran into Summers who was a journeyman guitar player from the generation prior to them, but who didn’t make it when Clapton, Beck, Page, Green and others did. He had been left stranded in CA after a stint with Eric Burden did t pan out and had just come back to the U.K. Henry got fired and The Police toured their asses off to get exposure. > - As they got bigger Sting got more famously controlling, showing up with the demos to Ghost in the Machine and saying “this IS the album- it’s done”. > > Was Sting more talented? Musically, no - but he wrote songs, learned how to make them radio-friendly through his tenure with The Police and the influence of the Copeland brothers, then used that as a platform to return to his first love, smooth jazz. > > As I said, he is an insufferable douchebag whose lyrics are too fancy by half. That book by Nabokov; I will turn your face to alabaster - ugh. They clank. And his fallback position of “nobody suffers like me” - King of Pain, double-ugh. He got it right the first time or three with So Lonely, Message in a Bottle, etc. This. I agree 100%. The Police was Copeland’s band, Copeland’s idea, Copeland’s image. He recruited Sting. He made it happen. Without Copeland, The Police don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/31 "2017-08-11T16:05:25Z")
Given that this is a US centric message board, I imagine that some of Sting’s songs have a political context that does not carry across the Atlantic. ‘We work the black seams together’ was not necessarily aimed at his usual audience, it was a comment made in relation to the UK miners strike of '84 '85. It was a comment on what was seen as a potential scrapping of an entire industry and hence the destruction of many communities - and in the end that is exactly what happened. So the lyrics are somewhat obvious and may well seem plodding. You also need to recall that one of those regions/communities was his own, so I imagine he was fairly passionate about what was going on in his hometown, he certainly saw the effects of the damage to communities around him caused by the closure of major employers I think you can pretty much say the same thing about ‘Russians’ which was a comment of heightened cold war tensions during Reagans presidency - again very strident and obvious lyrics. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/32 "2017-08-11T16:30:44Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > I have to admit that I don’t get all of the accusations of pompousness. I actually enjoy that Sting sometimes uses big words in his lyrics, and unlike some of the musicians I listen to, likely actually knows what they mean. They’re far more interesting than most of the crap I tend to hear. > > Are they occasionally strung together in silly ways? Sure. Very few pop stars have managed to avoid ever falling in that trap. But I don’t consider that the norm with him. Yeah, you should enjoy what works for you. He’s so accomplished along so many dimensions, and his great songs have lasted decades, that anyone who begrudges a bit of Sting enjoyment is just being Comic Book Guy. I remember first listening to There’s a Hole in My Life - not fully realizing that it was part of Sting’s Pain Song Loop™ and thinking how damn cool it was. So sophisticated and rockin at the same time. Damn. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/33 "2017-08-11T18:11:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Copeland had grown up internatinally since his dad was a CIA bureau chief Not to mention his brother was the head of IRS (records, that is) ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/34 "2017-08-11T20:20:01Z")
Sting’s phoniness didn’t go over well in the UK post-Police, I feel like it retro-actively diminished the band - he was seen as a truly colossal wanker. I worked in the US for a couple of years early 2000s and remember being surprised to hear Police tracks on decent radio stations, the type that would put a bit of quality into the playlist, as you just never heard them back home ever in that context. I couldn’t comment on Sting’s solo material, other than\* I hung my head \*is a bit of a tune, as I’ve never listened to his stuff in general. But I find it interesting that someone like Paul Weller, say, who has been truly mediocre for 35 years as a solo artist, has not infected the legacy of The Jam. No one thinks The Jam were anything other than exceptional. But the Police have a bit of _wasn’t that twat Sting their lead singer?_ to them to this day. Maybe that’s not a fair comparison, as The Jam are a level or two above the Police, but you see what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/35 "2017-08-12T01:57:28Z")
I didn’t realise this is how you’re supposed to appreciate music. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/36 "2017-08-12T03:04:36Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The Police are the greatest reggae band that has ever existed, IMO, . . . Really? Better than, say, the Wailers? ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/37 "2017-08-12T10:28:08Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I didn’t realise this is how you’re supposed to appreciate music. Not sure what you are commenting on. I am sure not trying to question his musicianship and enjoy his songs that avoid his foibles. This is meant to be a discussion of Copeland!s and Summers’s talent relative to Sting, and whether his move to smooth jazz and excellent hired guns upped his game. The general conclusion is that he upped his control, and used that control to shift genres, but didn’t up his game, per se. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/38 "2017-08-12T10:55:53Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Really? Better than, say, the Wailers? The Police were never a reggae band in the first place, so… ---
**Author:** ![bbonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bbonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbonden)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/39 "2017-08-18T16:16:22Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > Sting’s phoniness didn’t go over well in the UK post-Police, I feel like it retro-actively diminished the band - he was seen as a truly colossal wanker. Elvis Costello used to have an interview show on AMC or Sundance or Bravo or something similar. Did an interview with the Police during their most recent/“final” reunion tour. Most amusing interviews I’ve ever seen. The personal animosity amongst Sting/Summers/Copeland just dripped off the screen. At times they wouldn’t even look at each other. And then they got up and jammed with Declan. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108/40 "2017-08-18T16:20:05Z")
> [@bbonden](#): > > Elvis Costello used to have an interview show on AMC or Sundance or Bravo or something similar. Did an interview with the Police during their most recent/“final” reunion tour. Most amusing interviews I’ve ever seen. The personal animosity amongst Sting/Summers/Copeland just dripped off the screen. At times they wouldn’t even look at each other. And then they got up and jammed with Declan. What exactly is the dynamic there? I never really followed their interpersonal relationships. Are all of them kind of pissed off at each other. Or is it Sting vs Summers and Copeland? Or something else? I’m terrible at following intra-band drama, but I truly am curious here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sting-vs-the-police-a-talent-comparison/793108.md?page=3)