# Stock Markets, Tariffs, Coronavirus **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 24, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451 "2020-02-24T21:02:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2020, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/243 "2020-03-18T15:15:27Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The airlines SHOULD be allowed to fail. A few big ones will go belly up. Tough shit. Soon enough they’ll be bought out by other airlines or investors who will fire up the same airplanes on the same routes and life will go on. Airlines should be bailed-out under pain of re-regulation. Let’s undo some of that misguided Reagan administration bullshit. Let’s go a step further; some of the larger failing carriers should be combined into one nationalized international flagship airline. There are good reasons that many countries do that. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2020, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/244 "2020-03-18T17:42:31Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > President Trump missed a 3,000 point drop by _thiiiis_ much, with the DJIA closing down 2,997 in a bloodbath in both points and percentage (-12.93%) to end the day @ 20,188 (truncated the pennies, sorry… I’m old that way. 😛 ). > > Just to remind y’all, on Obama’s last full day, the DJIA closed at 19,742, meaning that… for the market… 3 more years of Republican economics, led by a man who bankrupted 5 casinos, has gained a whopping 446 nominal points. > > Adjusted to 2016 dollars? Obama’s DJIA closed at 20,991. > > 20188 > > - 20991 > > * * * > > - 803 > > So… in terms of 2016 dollars, the market is _down_ 800 points since Trump took office. > > [https://westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi](https://westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi) Currently, the DJIA is over 500 points below what it was on Obama’s last day @ 19,234 as of this moment. This means, adjusted for inflation, the DJIA is 1,757 lower than peak Obama. Soon the argument will morph to “Well, it’s still higher than 11-8-2016, when people thought that HRC will be President.” Which was 18,332, so nominally, this remains true. But adjusted? It’s still lower as 18,332 is now worth 19,647. [https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=18%2C332&year1=201611&year2=202002](https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=18%2C332&year1=201611&year2=202002) > **[Dow Jones Industrial Average (^DJI) Historical Data - Yahoo Finance](https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/%5EDJI/history?period1=1478390400&period2=1484870400&interval=1d&filter=history&frequency=1d)** > > Get historical data for the Dow Jones Industrial Average (^DJI) on Yahoo Finance. View and download daily, weekly or monthly data to help your investment decisions. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/245 "2020-03-18T18:21:07Z")
Just dropped below 19,000 for a few seconds. Back down to 18,963. [Bob Seegar] Like a rock[/Bob Seegar] ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2020, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/246 "2020-03-18T18:24:24Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’ve been saying this for years: there is a reason socialism is popular again. It’s not random, it’s because the rich people are hijacking the world. They always do, but it’s worse some times than other times. > > The airlines SHOULD be allowed to fail. A few big ones will go belly up. Tough shit. Soon enough they’ll be bought out by other airlines or investors who will fire up the same airplanes on the same routes and life will go on. I think at least one of them should. Having more than that, like it or not, is going to fuck the economy and have untold ripple effects. If I were God, I’d let Boeing go bankrupt and find a way to magically put the economy back together again. In reality, it’s not so easy. The unfortunate part is that as long as Republicans are in charge there will be no sense of moderation or balance. It’s really up to individual people to stay informed, educate themselves, and understand how their economy and democracy works instead of just settling for being spoon fed propaganda from right wing propaganda factories. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/247 "2020-03-20T07:50:55Z")
[US stock market falling faster than during the Wall Street Crash](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/stock-market-dow-jones-index-trump-coronavirus-wall-street-1929-crash-a9412221.html) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/248 "2020-03-20T11:56:24Z")
The short term stimulus will shore up markets, but all we’re doing is exacerbating wealth inequality. Short-term stimulus sounds great - let’s put a few dollars in someone’s stocking. :rolleyes: But once the stimulus is gone we’ll be stuck in the same cycle of cutting taxes for billionaires and using the stock market to pump up our incomes. Wage growth will stagnate and more people will simply disappear from the radar. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/249 "2020-03-20T14:02:51Z")
Good article: [Coronavirus credit crunch could make 2008 look like ‘child’s play’](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/20/coronavirus-crisis-could-lead-to-new-credit-crunch-as-companies-struggle-with-debt) > [@](#): > > With the world’s most advanced economies all entering a shutdown that could last months, companies that have gorged on cheap money for the past decade face going out of business thanks to a huge spike in borrowing costs on international money markets. > > The sudden loss of revenue faced by airlines, tourism-related businesses and carmakers make them extremely vulnerable, ratings agencies have said, with parts of the energy sector also at risk as the fall in the oil price to an 18-year low pulls the rug from under its feet. > > … > > The problem was particularly acute in the corporate borrowing market, he said, where many companies will struggle to refinance debt due to a repeat of the sudden change in credit conditions that sparked the 2007 credit crunch, banking collapses and then the GFC. The prospect of no revenue for months meant creditworthiness had plummeted in exposed sectors and cut off access to funding. > > “It was OK for companies to build up debt and keep rolling it over when borrowing costs were low,” Coote told the Guardian. “But now the market is not trading at all and companies trying to roll over bonds face higher costs and the result will be bankruptcy events. > > “$2tn worth of corporate debt is due to be rolled over this year but the market has completely frozen. The market is essentially closed. It’s a disaster.” ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/250 "2020-03-20T14:06:00Z")
An opinion, offered for nothing, probably worth nothing: We can let the airline industry fail. We, unfortunately, cannot let the aviation industry fail. Starting a new, functional airline is child’s play compared to starting a new Boeing. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/251 "2020-03-20T14:07:05Z")
n/m ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/252 "2020-03-21T00:36:39Z")
Back in post 130, I said the end of the Trump Bump was plausible. Guess I was right - but it happened faster than I ever thought. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/253 "2020-03-21T04:20:40Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Let’s go a step further; some of the larger failing carriers should be combined into one nationalized international flagship airline. There are good reasons that many countries do that. What are those reasons? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/254 "2020-03-23T21:34:38Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Top 20 drops in the DJIA by points: > [ul] > [li]1 2020-03-09 23,851.02 −2,013.76 −7.79% Republican[/li][li]2 2020-02-27 25,766.64 −1,190.95 −4.42% Republican[/li][li]3 2018-02-05 24,345.75 −1,175.21 −4.60% Republican[/li][li]4 2018-02-08 23,860.46 −1,032.89 −4.15% Republican[/li][li]5 2020-02-24 27,960.80 −1,031.61 −3.56% Republican[/li][li]6 2020-03-05 26,121.28 −969.58 −3.58% Republican[/li][li]7 2020-02-25 27,081.36 −879.44 −3.15% Republican[/li][li]8 2018-10-10 25,598.74 −831.83 −3.15% Republican[/li][li]9 2019-08-14 25,479.42 −800.49 −3.05% Republican[/li][li]10 2018-12-04 25,027.07 −799.36 −3.10% Republican[/li][li]11 2020-03-03 25,917.41 −785.91 −2.94% Republican[/li][li]12 2008-09-29 10,365.45 −777.68 −6.98% Republican[/li][li]13 2019-08-05 25,717.74 −767.27 −2.90% Republican[/li][li]14 2008-10-15 8,577.91 −733.08 −7.87% Republican[/li][li]15 2018-03-22 23,957.89 −724.42 −2.93% Republican[/li][li]16 2001-09-17 8,920.70 −684.81 −7.13% Republican[/li][li]17 2008-12-01 8,149.09 −679.95 −7.70% Republican[/li][li]18 2008-10-09 8,579.19 −678.92 −7.33% Republican[/li][li]19 2018-02-02 25,520.96 −665.75 −2.54% Republican[/li][li]20 2019-01-03 22,686.22 −660.02 −2.83% Republican[/li][/ul] Just a quick update to this chart: [ul] [li]1 2020-03-16 20,188.52 −2,997.10 −12.93 [/li][li]2 2020-03-12 21,200.62 −2,352.60 −9.99 [/li][li]3 2020-03-09 23,851.02 −2,013.76 −7.79 [/li][li]4 2020-03-11 23,553.22 −1,464.94 −5.86 [/li][li]5 2020-03-18 19,898.92 −1,338.46 −6.30 [/li][li]6 2020-02-27 25,766.64 −1,190.95 −4.42 [/li][li]7 2018-02-05 24,345.75 −1,175.21 −4.60 [/li][li]8 2018-02-08 23,860.46 −1,032.89 −4.15 [/li][li]9 2020-02-24 27,960.80 −1,031.61 −3.56 [/li][li]10 2020-03-05 26,121.28 −969.58 −3.58 [/li][li]11 2020-03-20 19,173.98 -913.21 −4.55 [/li][li]12 2020-02-25 27,081.36 −879.44 −3.15 [/li][li]13 2018-10-10 25,598.74 −831.83 −3.15 [/li][li]14 2019-08-14 25,479.42 −800.49 −3.05 [/li][li]15 2018-12-04 25,027.07 −799.36 −3.10 [/li][li]16 2020-03-03 25,917.41 −785.91 −2.94 [/li][li]17 2008-09-29 10,365.45 −777.68 −6.98 [/li][li]18 2019-08-05 25,717.74 −767.27 −2.90 [/li][li]19 2008-10-15 8,577.91 −733.08 −7.87 [/li][li]20 2018-03-22 23,957.89 −724.42 −2.93[/ul][/li] Trump now owns the top 16 point drops in DJIA history. Would like to note he owned the top-5 before all this started, so he’s performing according to both expectations _and_ in correlation with past results. Like I said, the happiest people in the world are George W Bush and a deceased President Hoover. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/255 "2020-03-24T21:18:29Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Just a quick update to this chart: > > [ul] > [li]1 2020-03-16 20,188.52 −2,997.10 −12.93 [/li][li]2 2020-03-12 21,200.62 −2,352.60 −9.99 [/li][li]3 2020-03-09 23,851.02 −2,013.76 −7.79 [/li][li]4 2020-03-11 23,553.22 −1,464.94 −5.86 [/li][li]5 2020-03-18 19,898.92 −1,338.46 −6.30 [/li][li]6 2020-02-27 25,766.64 −1,190.95 −4.42 [/li][li]7 2018-02-05 24,345.75 −1,175.21 −4.60 [/li][li]8 2018-02-08 23,860.46 −1,032.89 −4.15 [/li][li]9 2020-02-24 27,960.80 −1,031.61 −3.56 [/li][li]10 2020-03-05 26,121.28 −969.58 −3.58 [/li][li]11 2020-03-20 19,173.98 -913.21 −4.55 [/li][li]12 2020-02-25 27,081.36 −879.44 −3.15 [/li][li]13 2018-10-10 25,598.74 −831.83 −3.15 [/li][li]14 2019-08-14 25,479.42 −800.49 −3.05 [/li][li]15 2018-12-04 25,027.07 −799.36 −3.10 [/li][li]16 2020-03-03 25,917.41 −785.91 −2.94 [/li][li]17 2008-09-29 10,365.45 −777.68 −6.98 [/li][li]18 2019-08-05 25,717.74 −767.27 −2.90 [/li][li]19 2008-10-15 8,577.91 −733.08 −7.87 [/li][li]20 2018-03-22 23,957.89 −724.42 −2.93[/ul][/li] > Trump now owns the top 16 point drops in DJIA history. Would like to note he owned the top-5 before all this started, so he’s performing according to both expectations _and_ in correlation with past results. > > Like I said, the happiest people in the world are George W Bush and a deceased President Hoover. Think of all the lovely buying opportunities! And are these large point drops the largest %age wise as well? If not, it seems a tiny bit misleading. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/256 "2020-03-24T21:39:29Z")
Dude, you didn’t respond to the first post when I typed this up (which included the %'s). Why not go to the original post [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22181215&postcount=135) and respond to _that_. Or are you just going to cherry-pick posts to respond to while ignoring the larger point? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2020, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/257 "2020-03-25T00:11:13Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Trump now owns the top 16 point drops in DJIA history. Would like to note he owned the top-5 before all this started, so he’s performing according to both expectations _and_ in correlation with past results. And the highest in history. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2020, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/258 "2020-03-25T00:13:15Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > And the highest in history. I dearly hope he tries out this talking point. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2020, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/259 "2020-03-25T02:57:58Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > And the highest in history. You, too, ignored post 135 to bring up meaningless data points. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2020, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/260 "2020-03-25T03:45:21Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > You, too, ignored post 135 to bring up meaningless data points. So the President is responsible for the lows, but not the highs? Is that your message? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2020, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/261 "2020-03-25T04:03:28Z")
My message is, since you ignored it repeatedly (except to ask what I meant, the response to which you completely ignored) is that the historical and financial evidence is overwhelming: The GOP is incapable of managing a modern, post-slavery economy. Trump is but the latest (but, to give him credit, most spectacular) in a long line of GOP economic disasters for the United States, a record which goes back to 1869. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2020, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451/262 "2020-03-25T04:21:56Z")
Total nonsense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-markets-tariffs-coronavirus/848451.md?page=14)