# Stoid, Are You Still Confident that You Know a Lot about Diet and Obesity? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 12, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100 "2013-02-12T18:34:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/181 "2013-06-17T15:51:44Z")
> [@Lightlystarched](#): > > But WHY do you eat too much? I really enjoy Cheetos. ---
**Author:** ![Lightlystarched](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Lightlystarched](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightlystarched)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/182 "2013-06-17T15:56:59Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I suspect part of it is that fat used to be a pretty good proxy for the sort of unhealthy foods to avoid. Ice cream, cookies, potato chips, fried chicken, pizza, etc. all have a high fat content. So it was reasonable to believe that fat is unhealthy. And that’s where the weak weak science part comes in. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/183 "2013-06-17T15:59:55Z")
> [@Lightlystarched](#): > > But WHY do you eat too much? We have signals in our body that when working correctly turn hunger off and on. When you are a teen and growing, you are hungry because your body needs the calories. A pregnant lady is hungry because she’s using more calories. So what is it that is driving people to crave extra calories? Again, I am not an expert but I strongly suspect that a big part of the problem is foods which taste too good. That’s related to fat (and carbohydrates), but it’s an oversimplification to just look at the components. Somehow the processing can affect the ultimate result. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/184 "2013-06-17T16:01:55Z")
> [@Lightlystarched](#): > > And that’s where the weak weak science part comes in. Perhaps, but is the science supporting the carbohydrate hypothesis any stronger? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/185 "2013-06-17T16:08:51Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > I really enjoy Cheetos. Says the dude with the orange dingus. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lightlystarched](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Lightlystarched](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightlystarched)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/186 "2013-06-17T16:11:00Z")
I think it is getting there. It has not until recently even been studied. Its hard to get funding for…think of all the institutions and food conglomerates that would not be on board. Or, all the institutions that for years have been pushing the opposite view. How likely is it that the American Heart Association is going to say “Ooops! We were wrong. Sorry.” ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/187 "2013-06-17T16:16:29Z")
> [@Lightlystarched](#): > > I think it is getting there. It has not until recently even been studied. Its hard to get funding for…think of all the institutions and food conglomerates that would not be on board. You could say the same thing about fat. > [@](#): > > Or, all the institutions that for years have been pushing the opposite view. How likely is it that the American Heart Association is going to say “Ooops! We were wrong. Sorry.” [Here](http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/Diet-and-Lifestyle-Recommendations_UCM_305855_Article.jsp) are the American Heart Association’s diet recommendations. > [@](#): > > Eat a variety of nutritious foods from all the food groups. It doesn’t seem that they advocate pigging out on carbohydrates. ---
**Author:** ![Lightlystarched](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Lightlystarched](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightlystarched)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/188 "2013-06-17T16:31:02Z")
Meh. Still demonizing saturated fat. In recent years things are better - avocados are again deemed healthy. Eggs are losing their stigma. Olive oil is now a wonder food. Even nuts have been vindicated. I am very hopeful that the tide is slowing turning and the anti-fat phobia will be behind us. And that will be a very good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/189 "2013-06-17T16:37:31Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > How many carbs does a hat have? 😃 Probably quite a few. I’d make it my cheat meal of the week. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/190 "2013-06-17T17:22:55Z")
> [@Lightlystarched](#): > > Meh. Still demonizing saturated fat. In recent years things are better - avocados are again deemed healthy. Eggs are losing their stigma. Olive oil is now a wonder food. Even nuts have been vindicated. I am very hopeful that the tide is slowing turning and the anti-fat phobia will be behind us. And that will be a very good thing. Are you saying that the American Heart Association has changed its position? And do you agree that the American Heart Association does not seem to advocate eating large quantities of carbohydrates? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/191 "2013-06-17T17:36:55Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > How many carbs does a hat have? 😃 They’re actually pretty low-carb except for the beanie. And watch out for the porkpie hat. _Loads_ of fat. ---
**Author:** ![Lightlystarched](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Lightlystarched](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightlystarched)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/192 "2013-06-17T17:42:54Z")
The USDA has gone from “My Pyramid” to “My Plate”. So yes, “official” recommendations have changed. I do believe the hasty recommendation to decrease fat consumption in the 70s and 80s was poorly supported by science and is part of the reason for the obesity epidemic. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/193 "2013-06-17T18:08:33Z")
> [@Lightlystarched](#): > > Meh. Still demonizing saturated fat. In recent years things are better - avocados are again deemed healthy. Eggs are losing their stigma. Olive oil is now a wonder food. Even nuts have been vindicated. I am very hopeful that the tide is slowing turning and the anti-fat phobia will be behind us. And that will be a very good thing. yes! ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/194 "2013-06-17T18:31:37Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > How many carbs does a hat have? 😃 I was too lazy to make this joke earlier. Thanks for picking up the slack. > [@Lightlystarched](#): > > The USDA has gone from “My Pyramid” to “My Plate”. So yes, “official” recommendations have changed. I do believe the hasty recommendation to decrease fat consumption in the 70s and 80s was poorly supported by science and is part of the reason for the obesity epidemic. The USDA is a pawn of the food industry. Pretty much any guidelines they release are going to be influenced by the lobbyists in big agriculture or big dairy or whatever. They have attempted to name actual food categories to be avoided, only to be shouted down by the food trade and bullied into weakening their recommendations to avoiding certain macro nutrients (i.e. saturated fats.) I don’t trust those fools. The truth is, healthy eating isn’t much of a mystery. If it’s a real, whole food, it’s probably safe to eat, but the bulk of our diets should probably be vegetables. When I look at all the different weight-loss diets out there, they all seem to have lots of vegetables in common. People can attribute their weight loss to low carbs or high protein or whatever - if you’re eating more vegetables, you’re eating less of that other stuff, which is higher in calories. Since we’re having fun with anecdotal evidence, I’ll throw in my two cents. I’ve never had this dieting problem of being constantly hungry. I might have cravings for the first week or two, but restricting calories doesn’t seem to make me hungry. Generally, the more weight I lose, the smaller my appetite. However, since I’ve gone over to clean eating, I’ve seen a pretty dramatic difference in my hunger levels of grains vs. veggies or protein. I seem to do best with a lot of vegetables, a lot of dairy, a moderate amount of fruit and a little meat. I have days where all I eat for lunch is a heap of steamed peas with feta cheese - and I’m not hungry. Yesterday morning, I tried making homemade quinoa granola and it was so delicious I couldn’t stop eating it. It ended up making me sick. I tried to have just a little for breakfast this morning, and in addition to stomach ache I’ve also been eating constantly: potato chips, dried cherries, popcorn - this is not how I typically eat. The difference, for me at least, is quite dramatic. But I wouldn’t necessarily chalk it up to low carbs because I eat fruit whenever and however I want it. There’s something about grains, for me, that seems to trigger more eating. I’m still trying to work it out. But I’m not sure demonizing carbs is the way to go - maybe identifying the _kind_ of carbs is more important. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/195 "2013-06-17T18:35:37Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > The USDA is a pawn of the food industry. Pretty much any guidelines they release are going to be influenced by the lobbyists in big agriculture or big dairy or whatever. Big Pharma and the Rosecrucians still oversee the whole group, though. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/196 "2013-06-17T18:57:41Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Big Pharma and the Rosecrucians still oversee the whole group, though. Now you just sound paranoid. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/197 "2013-06-17T19:21:42Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Yes I agree to a large extent. I have researched these issues informally for quite a while now and I am just about convinced that there is a similar psychological process in play as between an alcoholic who is addicted to alcohol and a fat person who cannot resist the urge to pig out. Also physical. Just as addicts to alcohol are battling a physical addiction (in addition to a psychological one), it is equally true that people who have been fat are fighting physical appetite stimulators that the never-fat don’t have to deal with. There is also some evidence that it is a lot easier for the formerly-fat than the thin to put on weight, on the same diet and exercise regimen. (Lesson: don’t get fat in the first place; if you are moving in that direction and you have the ability to pull back, do it now.) I’ve said it before in other threads: when you go from normal (never fat) to fat, you add a lot of fat cells. If you then lose weight, those fat cells don’t go away, they just get smaller. And those same fat cells stimulate substances in your bloodstream, like grelins, that make you feel hunger sooner and more intensely than you would if those fat cells weren’t there. It is my opinion that failure to understand this dynamic is the single biggest factor in many people’s failure to maintain their weight loss. The other biggest factor is failure to realize that keeping off significant weight loss involves a drastic change of lifestyle, including both frequent cardio exercise and what most (Western) people would regard as an abstemious diet. So I say good luck to everyone who has lost weight, now comes the hard part - keeping it off. I speak from the trenches - I lost 150 pounds 8 or 9 years ago; currently I have put back on 60 of those pounds, and I am working to take them off again. My health is very good, but I am under no delusions about allowing myself to stay at this weight. It will either go up or it will go down. Once you’ve been fat, there seems to be no middle ground. Roddy eta: I don’t want to give short shrift to the psychological factors of weight gain: if you eat for emotional comfort (as one example) you’re going to have to figure out a different way to handle that need, if you are going to maintain your weight loss. There is just no way to go back to the way you used to do things, once you have lost weight. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/198 "2013-06-17T19:23:32Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > No, I don’t think it’s quite that simple. Depending, of course, on how you define “knowing” and “doing.” know·ing Adjective Showing or suggesting that one has knowledge Noun The state of being aware or informed. do·ing Noun The activities in which a particular person engages. Deeds; accomplishments. Pretty straightforward. Do you have different definitions? > [@](#): > > There seem to be at least 3 aspects of dieting: > > (1) Knowing what to eat, and how much, in order to lose weight and maintain the weight loss; > > (2) Knowing how to psychologically approach your diet so you can stick to it; and > > (3) Internalizing (2) to a point where you do it pretty much all the time. Actually, there’s two aspects to dieting for weight loss: knowing what to do, then doing it until you lose weight. There’s two aspects to weight maintenance: knowing what to do, then doing it consistently so that you never regain. Doing what is necessary in both instances is varying degrees of difficult for people for a variety of reasons generally unrelated to their knowledge. > [@](#): > > Again you are just playing semantic games. You know perfectly well what I mean when I talk about diets failing . Yes, I do know what _you_ mean: you mean that if someone gets fat after losing weight, the diet has failed. But that’s incorrect. Again. > [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > The USDA is a pawn of the food industry. Pretty much any guidelines they release are going to be influenced by the lobbyists in big agriculture or big dairy or whatever. They have attempted to name actual food categories to be avoided, only to be shouted down by the food trade and bullied into weakening their recommendations to avoiding certain macro nutrients (i.e. saturated fats.) I don’t trust those fools. > > The truth is, healthy eating isn’t much of a mystery. If it’s a real, whole food, it’s probably safe to eat, but the bulk of our diets should probably be vegetables. When I look at all the different weight-loss diets out there, they all seem to have lots of vegetables in common. People can attribute their weight loss to low carbs or high protein or whatever - if you’re eating more vegetables, you’re eating less of that other stuff, which is higher in calories. > … > Yesterday morning, I tried making homemade quinoa granola and it was so delicious I couldn’t stop eating it. It ended up making me sick. I tried to have just a little for breakfast this morning, and in addition to stomach ache I’ve also been eating constantly: potato chips, dried cherries, popcorn - this is not how I typically eat. The difference, for me at least, is quite dramatic. But I wouldn’t necessarily chalk it up to low carbs because I eat fruit whenever and however I want it. There’s something about grains, for me, that seems to trigger more eating. I’m still trying to work it out. But I’m not sure demonizing carbs is the way to go - maybe identifying the _kind_ of carbs is more important. And Olives gets two thumbs up! ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/199 "2013-06-17T19:28:24Z")
> [@Lightlystarched](#): > > The USDA has gone from “My Pyramid” to “My Plate”. So yes, “official” recommendations have changed. That would seem to invalidate your argument that organizations like the AHA won’t change their positions. > [@](#): > > I do believe the hasty recommendation to decrease fat consumption in the 70s and 80s was poorly supported by science and is part of the reason for the obesity epidemic. Seems to me you are making the same mistake here – taking a position which does not have solid scientific support. Besides which, I doubt that in the 80s the USDA would have advocated regular consumption of fried noodles and fried tortilla chips. Probably you ate a lot more fat than you realized. (In a lunch consisting of Doritos and Diet Coke, nearly half the calories come from fat.) ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100/200 "2013-06-17T19:41:56Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Pretty straightforward. Do you have different definitions? No, I am happy to use the ones you offered. When I drew a distinction between (1) knowing what to eat; and (2) sticking to a diet, I was not distinguishing between knowing and doing. Because (2) entails knowledge as well. Either you misunderstood me or you are just playing more semantic games. > [@](#): > > Actually, there’s two aspects to dieting for weight loss: knowing what to do, then doing it until you lose weight. > > There’s two aspects to weight maintenance: knowing what to do, then doing it consistently so that you never regain. So you deny that sticking to a diet requires knowledge? > [@](#): > > Doing what is necessary in both instances is varying degrees of difficult for people for a variety of reasons generally unrelated to their knowledge. I guess your answer is “yes,” then? > [@](#): > > Yes, I do know what _you_ mean: you mean that if someone gets fat after losing weight, the diet has failed. But that’s incorrect. No, it’s correct. Using the words “success” and “failure” in the normal sense – not the special definitions you have chosen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stoid-are-you-still-confident-that-you-know-a-lot-about-diet-and-obesity/650100.md?page=11)