# Stone Mountain takes baby steps away from racism **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 25, 2021, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869 "2021-05-25T12:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/1 "2021-05-25T12:07:04Z")
šŸ˜ƒ Good news, everyone! > **[Georgia park with giant Confederate carving approves changes](https://apnews.com/article/georgia-travel-lifestyle-229fd37404ae8d3893ff15250ce920e5)** > > STONE MOUNTAIN, Ga. (AP) ā€” The board overseeing a mountain park near Atlanta with a giant carving of Confederate leaders voted Monday to relocate Confederate flags from a busy walking trail and create a museum exhibit that acknowledges the site's... > [@](#): > > The board overseeing a mountain park near Atlanta with a giant carving of Confederate leaders voted Monday to relocate Confederate flags from a busy walking trail and create a museum exhibit that acknowledges the siteā€™s connection to the Ku Klux Klan. > > The moves were part of an effort by the Stone Mountain Memorial Association to address criticism of the parkā€™s Confederate legacy and shore up its finances. The chairman of the associationā€™s board promised more changes. > > ā€œWeā€™ve just taken our first step today to where we need to go,ā€ the Rev. Abraham Mosley said at a news conference after the vote. Mosley, appointed by Gov. Brian Kemp last month, is the boardā€™s first African American chairman. > > The board did not address the carving at Mondayā€™s meeting, but Mosley did not rule out changes to it in the future. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/2 "2021-05-25T12:14:56Z")
I didnā€™t realise it was carved in the '60s. I had assumed it was older than that. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/3 "2021-05-25T12:20:52Z")
Iā€™ve wondered about Stone Mountain for a long time. Iā€™m curious about it, myself, and would like to visit it as a historical artifact. After all, it has the largest _bas relief_ in the world. On the other hand, itā€™s inextricably tied to racism and the worship of the Confederate side of the Civil War. It lionizes three Confederate war leaders. Even if it doesnā€™t depict a crowd of hooded Ku Klux Klan members (as it was originally going to do), we live in an age when people are pulling down such statues. Iā€™m surprised that no one has tried to pull a ā€œBuddhas of Bamiyanā€ on it. The Park was owned by a family into the Klan, who opened the park as a monument to the Confederacy on the 100th anniversary of Lincolnā€™s assassination. For a long time, the park was a gathering site for the reconstituted Klan. Anything they do to move the park away from its racist roots is welcome, but thereā€™s no way they can completely dissociate from it. I hope that itā€™s preserved, if only as a reminder not of the glory of the Confederacy, but of what it really meant and led to. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/4 "2021-05-25T12:28:57Z")
I have been there. I was 13 or 14, staying with my father for the summer and there was a concert there; Doobie Brothers, IIRC. The carving is impressive: it is enormous and the mountainside truly is like a gigantic room wall. Even back then I was really uncomfortable being there, tho. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/5 "2021-05-25T12:33:14Z")
They should leave it, but also include a giant plaque ā€“ ā€œThis carving commemorates some evil, white-supremacist traitors to the US. It was commissioned by evil white supremacists in order to celebrate one of our nationā€™s darkest moments, because they are traitors at heart, and also to push back on our fellow Americans gaining a little more equality and freedom. There is no way to defend the mindset behind the people who commissioned this tribute to evil, but it is a striking carving, the worldā€™s largest bas relief, and so in the interest of art, it will remain.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/6 "2021-05-25T14:32:52Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > I didnā€™t realise it was carved in the '60s. I had assumed it was older than that. Well, Gutzon Borglum did start working on the idea in 1915 (he was a member of the Klan), and started carving it in 1923, with Leeā€™s head unveiled in 1924. But he disagreed with the committee in charge, and all his work was ultimately removed. (Borglum escaped after smashing his models, and went on to start the carving on Mount Rushmore) Then they started all over again in 1964 and didnā€™t finish until 1972. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/7 "2021-05-25T14:56:02Z")
I hadnā€™t realized there were recent events related to removing the relief. From the Wikipedia page: > [@](#): > > After the [Charleston church shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting) in mid-2015, Stone Mountain was the subject of a political debate related to the removal of symbols of the [Confederacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America).[[36]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#cite_note-36) This controversy was stimulated by a movement in other states to remove the [Confederate battle flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America) and statues of Confederate leaders from public areas. > > > [The Confederate sculpture at Stone Mountain is] the largest shrine to white supremacy in the history of the world ā€¦ I donā€™t think people understand the objective and the intent. They donā€™t understand that itā€™s based on white supremacy because the [American Civil War] was based on white supremacy, and the ā€˜heroesā€™ are based on white supremacy. After the killings at Emanuel Church in Charleston, it finally crystallized for me that these monuments encourage violence and validate oppression. > > > > ā€” President of the [NAACP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAACP) Richard Rose[[37]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#cite_note-SPL_Stone_Mountain-37) > > A proposal was made to remove the Confederate carving from Stone Mountain Park.[_[citation needed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)_ ] However, according to Georgia state law, no one is allowed to alter the figures carved upon the stone face. Any changes within the state park would require approval by the state legislature.[[38]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#cite_note-carving-38) > > On October 11, 2015, _[The Atlanta Journal-Constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Atlanta_Journal-Constitution)_ reported the park was considering a proposal of a permanent ā€œFreedom Bellā€ honoring [Martin Luther King Jr.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr.) and the line ā€œLet freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgiaā€, from Kingā€™s 1963 ā€œ[I Have a Dream](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Have_a_Dream)ā€ speech.[[39]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#cite_note-39) The proposed monument is inspired by a bell-ringing ceremony held in 2013 honoring the 50th anniversary of Kingā€™s speech. It is not supported by the [NAACP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAACP) or King-founded [Southern Christian Leadership Conference](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Christian_Leadership_Conference) (SCLC), who want the Confederate symbols removed rather than a King symbol added.[[40]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#cite_note-40) Advance Local reported in 2015 that both the DeKalb County branch of the NAACP and the [Sons of Confederate Veterans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_Confederate_Veterans) were opposed to the bell because it would have been put next to a Confederate monument. Representatives of the NAACP were quoted in the article saying ā€œItā€™s an attempt to gain support from blacks to keep these racist and demeaning symbols.ā€[[41]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#cite_note-41)[_[needs update](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers#Chronological_items)_ ] > > In August 2017, after the [Unite the Right rally](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally) in [Charlottesville, Virginia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottesville,_Virginia)ā€”a [white nationalist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_nationalist) protest against the removal of the [Robert E. Lee monument](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee_Monument_(Charlottesville,_Virginia)) and [Stonewall Jackson sculpture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jonathan_Jackson_(sculpture))ā€”turned violent, many people across the country again demanded the removal of many Confederate monuments and memorials as a part of a national political debate.[[42]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#cite_note-latimes1-42)[[43]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#cite_note-43)[[44]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#cite_note-44) Georgia State Representative and Democratic gubernatorial candidate [Stacey Abrams](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stacey_Abrams) called for the removal, by [sandblasting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandblasting), of Stone Mountainā€™s carving.[[45]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#cite_note-45)[[46]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#cite_note-46) She called it ā€œa blight upon our stateā€.[[47]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#cite_note-47)[[48]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#cite_note-48) > > On July 5, 2020, 100 to 200 armed protesters came to Stone Mountain to call for the carvingā€™s removal.[[49]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#cite_note-Armed_Protesters-49) Known as the [Not Fucking Around Coalition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Fucking_Around_Coalition) (NFAC), it was a protest against both overt and systemic racism, calling out white supremacists, with the location being chosen in part due to its history as the place where the Ku Klux Klan was re-formed.[[50]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#cite_note-50) > > On August 15, 2020, the park administration closed its gates in reaction to a gathering of white nationalists planned there, and the cityā€™s public buses were suspended for the day. Nevertheless a fight broke out between the gatherers downtown and counter-protesters downtown, with no injuries.[[51]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#cite_note-51) > **[Stone Mountain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain#Confederate_Memorial)** > > Stone Mountain is a quartz monzonite dome monadnock and the site of Stone Mountain Park, 16 miles (26Ā km) east of Atlanta, Georgia. Outside the park is the small city of Stone Mountain, Georgia. The park is the most visited tourist site in the state of Georgia. > The park is owned by the state of Georgia. At its summit, the elevation is 1,686 feet (514Ā m) above sea level and 825 feet (251Ā m) above the surrounding area. Stone Mountain is well known for not only its geology, but also the enormous ro... I like that ā€“ The Not Fucking Around Coalition. You _know_ they mean business. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/8 "2021-05-25T14:59:55Z")
They should compromise - leave the carving but put giant googly eyes on all the figures. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/9 "2021-05-25T15:07:55Z")
Ideally, someone would carve an even larger bas-relief of Civil Rights leaders, so this one would lose the incredibly small status it has, and it could be blown to smithereens as it actually deserves. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/10 "2021-05-25T16:28:28Z")
Here is a good article I read a few days ago. > **[Confederate monuments at Stone Mountain Park: Proposed changes considered Monday](https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-news/what-telling-the-truth-about-stone-mountain-might-look-like/732I32LU4RFL5M5MNO75WEC774/)** > > Late last month, on the state holiday formerly known as Confederate Memorial Day, Bill Stephens stood behind a podium in a crowded ballroom. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > Iā€™m surprised that no one has tried to pull a ā€œBuddhas of Bamiyanā€ on it. Someone probably would have, but high-explosive rockets are (suprisingly) harder to get in the US than Afghanistan. (Iā€™m of the view that destroying the artwork because of the subject would be an equally sickeningly sad crime against humanity as the Talibanā€™s destruction of the Buddhas.) ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/11 "2021-05-25T16:36:29Z")
Swap places with the carving and the [gum pole](https://foursquare.com/v/stone-mountain-gum-pole/4fe46e66e4b05cb8d2ac7c46/photos). Put up a little totem pole with Lee, Davis & Jackson perched on each other, and fill in the scab on the mountainside with chewed gum. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/12 "2021-05-25T17:34:15Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > (Iā€™m of the view that destroying the artwork because of the subject would be an equally sickeningly sad crime against humanity as the Talibanā€™s destruction of the Buddhas.) equally? The destruction of 1500 year old statues of one of the greatest figures in human history would be equal to the destruction of 50 year old statues of three traitorous racist shitbags, put up by other traitorous racist shitbags? How about the destruction of the statues of [Stalin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_Monument_(Budapest)) or [Saddam Hussein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firdos_Square_statue_destruction)? Are those equal? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/13 "2021-05-25T17:55:34Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > How about the destruction of the statues of [Stalin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_Monument_(Budapest)) or [Saddam Hussein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firdos_Square_statue_destruction)? Are those equal? If there were gigantic statues of them that otherwise might last thousands of years, yes. Some of the greatest art we have from the ancient world is of terrible people. (Every pharaoh, for example.) And the remarkable thing about the Buddhas being 1,500 years old? That it took that long for someone to come along and destroy them. There is always, _always_ some iconoclast with a hammer that comes along and decides that they _must_ do the right thing and destroy the art that they donā€™t like. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/14 "2021-05-25T18:00:57Z")
Interesting piece on Stone Mountain by the Southern Poverty Law Center; > **[Stone Mountain: A Monumental Dilemma](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2018/stone-mountain-monumental-dilemma)** > > Some see the monument as ā€œthe largest shrine to white supremacy in the history of the world.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/15 "2021-05-25T18:13:18Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Some of the greatest art we have from the ancient world is of terrible people. (Every pharaoh, for example.) If the people of Egypt decided thousands of years ago that it wasnā€™t right to put up huge egotistical mountains celebrating the shitbags who ruled over them, I would support their right to do so, even if it means I donā€™t get to experience the Pyramids of Egypt. I mean, theyā€™re cool and all, but I donā€™t have to live with the memory of being enslaved by the person it celebrates. Iā€™m sure this carving is also cool, but my country would be a better place if it had never been made, if the people empowered to make it were taught as children that this sort of thing will not stand. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/16 "2021-05-25T22:51:04Z")
Iā€™d question whether it was even art. Itā€™s not that attractive or well carved to me. Itā€™s just BIG. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/17 "2021-05-26T01:27:28Z")
Indeed! Nothing that a summer of art critics with bazookas canā€™t improve. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/18 "2021-05-26T06:30:29Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > Iā€™d question whether it was even art. Itā€™s not that attractive or well carved to me. Itā€™s just BIG. Clearly, you have never seen the [Stone Mountain Lasershow Spectacular in MountainvisionĀ®](https://www.stonemountainpark.com/Activities/Shows-Entertainment/Lasershow). It is even more tacky than it sounds. Basically, they should sandblast the ā€˜monumentā€™ and replace it with a Ren & Stimpy sketch to be less tacky, notwithstanding the explicitly racist undertones of the whole presentation. Iā€™m still cringing from having to explain to British tourists that they hooded figures demonstrating at the site were not ā€œneo-Druidsā€. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Bumbazine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbazine/32/362_2.png) [@Bumbazine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbazine)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/19 "2021-05-26T18:19:14Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Indeed! Nothing that a summer of art critics with bazookas canā€™t improve. I see a big money-making opportunity there. Srsly, I would not want to celebrate racism in any form, but I donā€™t think we should pretend it doesnā€™t exist/never existed either. If this, and other, ā€˜monumentsā€™ can be used to teach future generations anything, perhaps we can use it for that purpose. Otherwise, get rid of it. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869/20 "2021-05-26T20:55:20Z")
My Tandy Color Computer club hosted the guy who did the laser show back in the Oughts. Seemed an appropriate mix of obsolete technology and philosophy . [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stone-mountain-takes-baby-steps-away-from-racism/942869.md?page=2)