# Stop being so civil! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 28, 2005, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087 "2005-01-28T11:13:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/21 "2005-01-28T14:17:27Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I don’t think it’s PC. It’s an intellectual immaturity, born of an almost zealous hatred of anything Christian. Sort of an enemy-of-my-enemy thing. In fact, I would wager that this post — questioning the intellectual honesty of the suck-ups in that thread — will garner far more hysterical drive-bys and retorts than the post you cited that compares gays to drug dealers and child abusers. Further, I believe that a Christian fundamentalist _posting the exact same thing_ would already have been pitted here and run out on a rail. When Christians stop saying stupid shit, like Spongebob Squarepants is homosexual propaganda aimed at "converting kids to the Evil Gay Conspiracy, then maybe folks like me will stop feeling nervous when you cats are in the room. But you’re spot on in saying that there’s a double standard here. This stupid bitch (if she’s sincere and not just pulling our legs) is being cut way too much slack just because she claims to be a Muslim. She’s not even a real MENA Muslim or an immigrant who could pass on interesting cultural info about Islam and its traditions; she’s some dumb white kid who decided it would be cool to wear a burka! A moronic fundie is a moronic fundie, regardless if she picked up her idiocy in a church or a mosque. > [@](#): > > I am really starting to feel that religion should be forbidden in an enlightened society. And this is the stupidest comment of all; in a free society, one does not allow the government to dictate what forms of expression may be allowed. An “enlightened” society that forbade religion would be an oxymoron–official tyranny exerted over individual freedom of conscience is not in any way enlightened. People should be free to worship imaginary people in any way they see fit, and I will remain free to laugh at them. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/22 "2005-01-28T14:19:26Z")
> [@vinryk](#): > > She is just another example that close-minded religious zealots are all alike, whether they are Muslim, Christian or any other denomination. > I am really starting to feel that religion should be forbidden in an enlightened society. A fine example of open-minded tolerance. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/23 "2005-01-28T14:23:44Z")
A fair bit of what she believes is repugnant and and she \*\*should \*\* be pitted for those things. Stoning and the self satisfied way she would casually strip rights away from people are the two best examples. At the same time the thread is about a Muslim woman’s point of view, and we’ve managed to get **Angua** to post a bit, **yBeayf** has chimed in and we have pulled some value out of it. But I think she’s either hopelessly naïve or pulling our collective legs. She seems too much like a bad high school caricature of a mid-western American woman becoming a Muslim to be real. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/24 "2005-01-28T14:25:48Z")
**Carnick** : I also believe homosexuality is wrong, abnormal, abhorrent, immoral, and sinful. So are you going to pit _me_ now? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/25 "2005-01-28T14:28:37Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > **Carnick** : I also believe homosexuality is wrong, abnormal, abhorrent, immoral, and sinful. So are you going to pit _me_ now? :rolleyes: You’re a mean-spirited bigot and a genuinely hateful example of the smug Christian asshole who revels in his societally superior status; we know that. Pitting you would be pointless in the “teaching a pig to sing” sort of way. ---
**Author:** ![Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoundrel_Swanswater)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/26 "2005-01-28T14:29:11Z")
> [@](#): > > And this is the stupidest comment of all; in a free society, one does not allow the government to dictate what forms of expression may be allowed. You are very right. Upon reading it back and your comments, I can see where you are coming from. I meant it differently though, but I am a bit of a :wally What I meant was that in an enlightened society religion shouldn’t exist. . . . . OK, that also sound really stupid. You know what : you are right, I am stupid. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/27 "2005-01-28T14:33:00Z")
> [@vinryk](#): > > What I meant was that in an enlightened society religion shouldn’t exist. Perhaps “wouldn’t” exist is what you’re going for? **Grey** is right. Whatever pain we get from engaging in a Born Again zealot is trumped by getting to talk to **Angua** and **yBeayf**. That’s a very educational thread. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/28 "2005-01-28T14:34:48Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > While I certainly know what you mean, you do realize how bad that sounds, right? > 😃 :o Ah, yeah kinda, but I figured Dopers would know what I meant 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/29 "2005-01-28T14:34:51Z")
I agree that in an enlightened society, intelligent people would abandon the childish idea of an invisible man sitting in the clouds who hands out arbitrary suffering for His own amusement, a sort of celestial Saddam Hussein to whom one must make obeisance in the hope that one may avert His wrath through sufficient toadying. The crucial point is that each person must come to that realization freely, not through government edict. If people want to believe in the supernatural, I’ll mock them but I won’t do anything to prevent them. And if there were some sort of persecution of the kind that **Crafter\_Man** and his ilk like to pretend exists, I would be on his side in the fight. People should be free to hold even the most abhorrent of views. ---
**Author:** ![Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoundrel_Swanswater)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/30 "2005-01-28T14:37:48Z")
I bow to your words of wisdom, **Gobear.** You continually phrase the things the way I wish I could. I am not a good communicator, but I am trying. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/31 "2005-01-28T14:43:31Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Threaten to so much as tack a kitten to a door up there, and the mods get all huffy. You’re this board’s very own Martin Luther. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/32 "2005-01-28T14:45:52Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > You’re this board’s very own Martin Luther. Wouldn’t **Brutus** have to nail up 99 kittens to qualify? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/33 "2005-01-28T14:48:24Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Hey, I like kittens too! Have you ever tried tacking a ferret to door? Definite improvement over theses! (Did you ever wonder whatever happened to the 95 seniors at the University of Wittenberg who had Luther for their major professor? I mean, that was a hell of a thing to do with papers they’d worked for months to prepare! :eek: ) ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/34 "2005-01-28T14:52:59Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > **Carnick** : I also believe homosexuality is wrong, abnormal, abhorrent, immoral, and sinful. So are you going to pit _me_ now? :rolleyes: Seems to me Carnick was specifically pitting her suggestion that because she finds homosexuality was sinful therefore homosexuals do not deserve equal rights. If you agree with that idea then yes, you deserve pitting, no :rolleyes: involved. Your belief that homosexuality is inherrently wrongand abhorrent does not deserve pitting…perhaps just a wack upside the head with a cluesick. But that’s another debate. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/35 "2005-01-28T14:53:24Z")
Cut the crap, you stupid shitheads. The reason that folks are cutting her slack is one we haven’t the guts to fucking admit, even to ourselves. We feel guilty. Our troops have killed _thousands_ of her fellow Muslims in Iraq, \*for \*_no \*\* good reason **at all**!_ We had a poster, **Aldeberan** , who objected to this horrible crime, & we banned him. So, we’re putting up with this twerp to salve our collective feelings. And it’s crap. **Aldeberan** was worth 10 of her. That’s my feelings on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/36 "2005-01-28T14:57:11Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > No, but I’ve been tacked to a door by a pair of ferrets. Your real world name wouldn’t be Bucky would it\> ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/37 "2005-01-28T14:57:59Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Wouldn’t **Brutus** have to nail up 99 kittens to qualify? Take one down, and pass it around, 98 nailed-up kittens on the door. ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/38 "2005-01-28T14:59:33Z")
Some of her answers give me the distinct feeling that we’re being strung along for the _whoosh_. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/39 "2005-01-28T15:00:20Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > **Carnick** : I also believe homosexuality is wrong, abnormal, abhorrent, immoral, and sinful. So are you going to pit _me_ now? :rolleyes: Well, _I_ would – but telling somebody why they ought to practice the stuff that Christ commanded – you know, like loving others as oneself, not judging lest you be judged, doing unto others as you would have done to you, doing unto “one of the least of these” as you would do unto Him: that kind of stuff – is supposed to go in Great Debates. So I’ll simply say that “homosexuality” is an abstract concept defining a sexual orientation, often extended to describe practices carried out as a result of that orientation _or for other, more reprehensible reasons_ – and that Jesus had much more to say about Pharisaism than about homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087/40 "2005-01-28T15:00:53Z")
She comes across as a grade-a sanctimonious zealous asshole to me. That good enough for ya, **Lib**? The willingness to torture women to death for daring to get raped (after all, pregnancy is proof of sin), the willingness to deny people of their civil rights for their sexuality or gender identity, the willingness to murder authors of works she doesn’t like–what a fucking tool. About the best excuse I can offer for her is that it sounds as if she’s joined a cult and been brainwashed. Look at how she’s severed ties with her family, how she trusts the word of her leaders almost absolutely, how she’s full of selfrighteousness–just let us find out that she’s “sharing husbands” with the leader of the sect, and we’ll pretty much be set with full-on cult status. Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-being-so-civil/287087.md?page=3)