# Stop calling her 'pumpkin' please **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 20, 2007, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856 "2007-09-20T09:23:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/1 "2007-09-20T09:23:12Z")
> **[Xue family murder and abandonment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qian_Xun_Xue_case)** > > The Xue family murder and abandonment case involves the murder by New Zealand man Nai Yin Xue (薛乃印, also known as Michael) of his wife Anan (Annie) Liu (劉安安), in Mt Roskill, Auckland, on 11 September 2007, and his subsequent abandonment of their three-year-old daughter, Qian Xun Xue (薛千寻 in Simplified Chinese) also known as Clare Xue and nicknamed "Pumpkin" by the police and media, at Southern Cross station in Melbourne, Australia. Nai Yin then fled to the United States, settling undercover ac for references. We have now known her real name for many days now. The media here still call her ‘pumpkin’. Is this racism? Because it seems like it is. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/2 "2007-09-20T09:30:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **blinkingblinking** > Is this racism? Because it seems like it is. How so? ---
**Author:** ![MerryMagdalen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@MerryMagdalen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MerryMagdalen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/3 "2007-09-20T09:32:48Z")
FWIW in the US it’s common for news sources to continue referring to an abandoned/dead child by the original name the police called her, for continuity of coverage. For instance, the case of [Precious Doe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precious_Doe) where the child is still referred to by that name in most sources that I’ve seen, even though she’s been ID’ed. And also FWIW, my dad called me and my sisters Pumpkin for many years, and we’re white. I don’t know if the nickname has baggage in Australia, but here it’s just a little nickname for a kid. Like “Precious”. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/4 "2007-09-20T09:36:37Z")
“Xun Xue” is a bit tricky to pronounce if you don’t know Mandarin and pinyin? ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/5 "2007-09-20T09:43:45Z")
Her ‘english’ name is Claire. I’m sure it is as **MerryMagdalen** has said, for continuity of coverage, but it irritates me too. Whether this is racist, I don’t know. When I say ‘english’ name, asian migrants to NZ are encouraged to adopt a common local name as it’s supposed to make their transition easier, so little xun xue now has three names. On edit - our news casters are now all using Xun Xue. I’d like to know why the Oz police didn’t use either one of her actual names though - they had her full name and home address within hours. It delayed investigation here, and Og knows, our police haven’t _improved_ matters! ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/6 "2007-09-20T09:53:09Z")
[QUOTE=pool] How so? [/QUOTE] Let’s say your little girl Jessica gets lost while you are visiting China. It becomes a media story because you have already left for the Thailand part of your trip. The local media in China christen her ‘longnose’ in Chinese. But only after one day they find out her real name is Jessica. The media in China still continue to call the girl ‘longnose’ during the following 8 days it is a news story in China. Is it still cute ? Is it racist ? ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/7 "2007-09-20T09:55:38Z")
[QUOTE=maggenpye] On edit - our news casters are now all using Xun Xue. [/QUOTE] Australian media is not .[Pumpkin’s half-sister feared father](http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Pumpkins-halfsister-feared-father/2007/09/20/1189881675310.html) ---
**Author:** ![MerryMagdalen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@MerryMagdalen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MerryMagdalen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/8 "2007-09-20T09:59:57Z")
I really can’t see it as racist. I am from the US, and don’t know the cultural differences where you are, but if her name was reported early as “Pumpkin”, I can see continuing to use it. It may almost be anti-racist (or trying not to be racist), in a strange way - she’s a Chinese kid, but by continuing to use “Pumpkin” it may actually drum more sympathy for her than using her real name. Think about Mexican immigration here…calling an abandoned baby “Baby Garcia” might get less sympathy than just calling her “Muffin”, which is what the cop who first saw her called her. ETA: And can we really get more outraged about the father who did this, vs. what the media calls the poor tyke? Because that’s the problem here. ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/9 "2007-09-20T10:02:29Z")
[QUOTE=MerryMagdalen] I really can’t see it as racist. I am from the US, and don’t know the cultural differences where you are, but if her name was reported early as “Pumpkin”, I can see continuing to use it. It may almost be anti-racist (or trying not to be racist), in a strange way - she’s a Chinese kid, but by continuing to use “Pumpkin” it may actually drum more sympathy for her than using her real name. Think about Mexican immigration here…calling an abandoned baby “Baby Garcia” might get less sympathy than just calling her “Muffin”, which is what the cop who first saw her called her. [/QUOTE] I was not aware that the media’s job is to drum up sympathy for the girl. She has my sympathy no matter what her name would be. The girl should be called by her real name. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/10 "2007-09-20T10:07:33Z")
[QUOTE=maggenpye] When I say ‘english’ name, asian migrants to NZ are encouraged to adopt a common local name as it’s supposed to make their transition easier, so little xun xue now has three names [/QUOTE] As an aside, they do that in the UK too. I’ve seen a few students with quite pleasant Chinese names take names like Anne and Francis, but a few have been imaginative and come away with Rainbow and Maverick 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MerryMagdalen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@MerryMagdalen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MerryMagdalen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/11 "2007-09-20T10:09:08Z")
Ok, I thought that maybe the reason you were so upset about the nickname was that it was somehow a slur. But I see from news reports that she was wearing clothes with that brand, and the name stuck. I can agree that she should be called by her real name, but in reality she is now known by the nickname, and if it’s not a slur, it’s just a nickname. I know you’re sympathetic no matter what, but maybe not all people are as thoughtful as you. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/12 "2007-09-20T10:54:14Z")
[QUOTE=MerryMagdalen] Ok, I thought that maybe the reason you were so upset about the nickname was that it was somehow a slur. But I see from news reports that she was wearing clothes with that brand, and the name stuck. I can agree that she should be called by her real name, but in reality she is now known by the nickname, and if it’s not a slur, it’s just a nickname. I know you’re sympathetic no matter what, but maybe not all people are as thoughtful as you. [/QUOTE] I agree with everything you said. It is annoying to me beyond words that the press keep refering to her as Pumpkin but it seems the Australian police had a very logical reason for using the nickname intially and the press have no good reason to stop (will people know we are still talking about the same child if we use her real name?), lazy journalism is to blame more then racist agenda (in my opinion anyway). ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/13 "2007-09-20T11:03:29Z")
Just listening to the news now, definitely Qian Xun Xue - just like that. Poor kid. Her pre-school classmate called her Claire. They lived just down the (same) road from where I lived when I had my daughter. Which is making it feel just that little bit more immediate. My neighbour there had moved to NZ from China so she could have a second child - she wanted a girl as well as her son. I’d heard of the one child rule and I’d heard about the ‘little emperors’, my neighbour (who chose my name for herself!) was the first time I’d understood the reality. She came here for the same reason my maternal grandparents did, a better life for her daughter. **Pushkin** , (aside) cool!(/aside) The older (half) sister left home quite young and without warning (possibly to get away from him). He had no contact with her for years and when the story broke, there was speculation that she’d been killed also. She contacted the police to clear that up. She’s not saying why she left but says he was violent to \*her \*mother also, but not so much to her. She was afraid of him and is very much concerned with her half sister’s emotional well being, both now and in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/14 "2007-09-20T11:09:09Z")
She was nicknamed “Pumpkin” because she was wearing clothes made by Pumpkin Patch, a well known kids clothing brand in NZ, when she was found. No racism, over or covert, was involved. That said, now her name is known, she should be given the courtesy of having it used: however, the media here are going into overdrive, and “Pumpkin” is just too cute an angle to pass up. ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/15 "2007-09-20T11:22:37Z")
And having just said that they’re using her real name here, a current affairs show just ran a promo calling her ‘pumpkin’ again. :rolleyes: Crud, so are some of the newspapers. Count me in with the annoyed. He had a protection order against him, but because Qian’s mother hadn’t taken out a specific ‘Non-Removal’ order, they were not stopped at the airport. He had just picked up his passport and samurai sword from the police (after a previous assault). I keep thinking of the first reports, where they said the kid kept asking for her mother. Christ I hope they catch the bastard soon. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/16 "2007-09-20T12:22:46Z")
In the U.S., calling a girl “pumpkin” when you know her real name might be considered an example of **sexism,** not racism. Like calling her “honey” or “baby” or “doll” or “sweetie.” Demeaning. Like a pat on the head or a pinch on the ass. But only WRT an **adult.** Calling a baby “pumpkin” would be perfectly acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/17 "2007-09-20T12:28:07Z")
[QUOTE=maggenpye] And having just said that they’re using her real name here, a current affairs show just ran a promo calling her ‘pumpkin’ again. :rolleyes: Crud, so are some of the newspapers. Count me in with the annoyed. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure that I see the outrage (or annoyance). (My experience is entirely with the print media, so the electronic folks might be doing something different that is more annoying.) Every citation that have seen to “Pumpkin” since she has been identified has used the name only in the title of the piece, referring to her as Qian Xue Xue within the text of the articles. It would appear that the name “Pumpkin” is only being used for continuity from day to day to allow the stories to be linked, both in the minds of the readership and in internet searches. If they refused to recognize her name, I could see an issue, (and perhaps radio and TV are doing that), but I see no problem–and certainly no insult–in referring to her _in headlines only_ in a way that allows casual scans of a paper or electronic seaches of articles tie together all the separate stories. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/18 "2007-09-20T12:29:51Z")
To get this into the realm of Great Debates, what would those of you who are upset like to see as a general rule for dealing with this and similar situations. (If there are no general rules to debate, I’m going to kick this over to the **Pit**.) ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/19 "2007-09-20T12:45:20Z")
Have people used the word ‘pumpkin’ as a slur against Asians? I never heard that one before. I’ve only heard it as affectionate term, not associated with any race. Why are people so quick to cry “racism”? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856/20 "2007-09-20T12:57:29Z")
I don’t see how it is racist, just because you are calling someone by the incorrect name does not in itself mean you do so due to race. Why did the OP decide on racist instead of sexist? It may be taken as exclusionary, in the sense that she is isolated as non-person ‘object’ - different then those around here, but I don’t really see that here. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-calling-her-pumpkin-please/419856.md?page=2)