# Stop claiming it was a joke, you piece of crap **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075 "2018-05-29T17:50:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/101 "2018-05-29T23:14:20Z")
Over at [Vox.com](http://Vox.com), Todd VanDerWerff discusses some of the business factors behind ABC’s decision: > **[Why ABC had to cancel Roseanne](https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/5/29/17406210/roseanne-canceled-abc-valerie-jarrett-roseanne-barr)** > > It’s not (just) because it was the right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/102 "2018-05-29T23:17:19Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Just a reminder that the topic of this thread is Roseanne and how jokes are not an excuse to be racist. It is not about the NFL situation which has another thread. > > Be wary of those who try to change the topic. It’s been so long since I’ve posted regularly, I guess I’m unfamiliar with the rules. I did see that Trump’s been mentioned a few times in this thread, and that link to Rosanne seems as tenuous (or not) as ABC/NFL punishment for doing something offensive to most Americans, to try to save their businesses. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/103 "2018-05-29T23:21:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I know conservative old guys in my office who’ve stopped watching the NFL due to the kneeling (so they say, anyway). I’m sure this does affect their bottom line. But the NFL chose to include overtly patriotic and political rituals in their games, and thus _any_ decision they make on this is likely to piss off some significant number of fans. That doesn’t make it right, IMO, to purposefully restrict silent and peaceful protests that are meant to call attention to violent injustice in our society. Don’t make the mistake of trying to judge whether the protests are justified or not. And I’m glad that you didn’t make it about the 1st Amendment, as so many try to do (unsuccessfully). As they said in the Godfather, it’s just business. It’s not like the NFL (or baseball, or hockey) just started 2 years ago with the anthem. Like ABC (well, Disney I guess), they know that a majority of Americans find what their employees are doing/saying completely unacceptable, and they know that their business is suffering or would suffer because of it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/104 "2018-05-29T23:22:45Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Sure, protesting police violence against minorities is EXACTLY like using your fame to slur both Muslims and blacks, you stupid piece of shit. Wow, an emotional liberal, what are the odds? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/105 "2018-05-29T23:26:18Z")
Wow, a conservative too stupid to multi-quote. What a shocker. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/106 "2018-05-29T23:30:08Z")
If the 2nd season was already in pre-production, that must mean contracts were in place. It will be interesting to see if any lawsuits are filed. If ABC has language protecting them and allowing them to cancel under these circumstances, I wonder if that might open up Barr herself to liability? It’s a big show, I wonder if other cast & staff might have any chance of success in suing her for lost earnings? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/107 "2018-05-29T23:30:41Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Furthermore, the goddamn NFL doesn’t own the national anthem, nor are they required to play it before games. And if Americans are supposedly free, then they can do whatever the fuck they want during it. I can stand on my head and play a kazoo with my butthole, because freedom. If Colin Kaepernick wants to kneel, then freedom. If Kaepernick decided to kneel when it was fourth and goal, that would be the NFL’s business, but it ain’t so they should all just shut the fuck up. Hmmm, where to start. Yes, the NFL doesn’t ‘own’ the anthem. They have been playing it, as most leagues do, for a long time, probably decades. Yes, unless slavery comes back into vogue, Americans are free. But they can’t do whatever they want - they can’t shoot a person, they can’t sneak beer into the stadium (most of the time), and if you’re an employee, you have to follow the employer’s rules, or face the consequences. That applies to both the NFL and ABC. Both properties have the right to protect their brand. Kap, and now Roseanne, are out of a job because they acted in a way that is contrary to their employer’s best interests. And both (or will) suffer the slings and arrows of the public. They made their choices… after all, both were ‘free’ to do what they did. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/108 "2018-05-29T23:32:47Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Wow, a conservative too stupid to multi-quote. What a shocker. I’m not a left-wing squirrel, I like to focus on one thing at a time. And I realize I’m in a prog echo chamber, but even Jesus hung with the lepers and ho’s. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/109 "2018-05-29T23:36:09Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > I’m not a left-wing squirrel, I like to focus on one thing at a time. Piss off, Sparky. This is about a network that decided that it didn’t want to be associated with a virulent racist and conspiracy theorist. Not about a damned song. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/110 "2018-05-29T23:39:54Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > I thought about linking it in my post, but I can’t think of anyone on here that I dislike that much. Not even **D’Anconia**? You must be a _saint._ ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/111 "2018-05-29T23:44:20Z")
It’s all just phony patriotism. They put the little yellow ribbon on the Tahoe, wave the flag when they’re not busy blathering about Jesus, and sob uncontrollably when those uppity negroes have the temerity to protest state sanctioned murder. More useless bullshit from Trump’s White Trash Nation. Fuck the lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/112 "2018-05-30T00:09:31Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > I’m not a left-wing squirrel, I like to focus on one thing at a time. Your rather obvious mental limitations notwithstanding, this thread is about the misadventures of Roseanne Barr. Got anything to say about her? If not, then you should be using both of your brain cells to focus on shutting the fuck up, you fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/113 "2018-05-30T00:13:53Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > I’m not a left-wing squirrel, I like to focus on one thing at a time. This is a fair criticism. We left-wing squirrels keep scurrying from Roseanne, to Trump, to you. We can’t focus on just one nut. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/114 "2018-05-30T00:15:02Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Heh, some freeper posted that Roseane can’t be a racist, because she has a gay daughter\* and a black granddaughter… appearing on her show. > > That is even more sad than the old “some of my best friends are black” excuse, that looks like ‘some of the actors I have in the TV show, who play as my relatives, are gay or black’. > > - This looks to me like a very old cartoon where Santa Claus is defending himself in an interview with ACLU lawyers and he says: “Please, I continue to look to get minorities employed, but at least many of the elves are gay!” Or James Watt and his, “I have a black, a woman, two Jews and a cripple.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/115 "2018-05-30T00:29:33Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Don’t make the mistake of trying to judge whether the protests are justified or not. And I’m glad that you didn’t make it about the 1st Amendment, as so many try to do (unsuccessfully). > > As they said in the Godfather, it’s just business. It’s not like the NFL (or baseball, or hockey) just started 2 years ago with the anthem. Like ABC (well, Disney I guess), they know that a majority of Americans find what their employees are doing/saying completely unacceptable, and they know that their business is suffering or would suffer because of it. It’s just business, but that doesn’t mean I can’t make a judgment on both the protests and NFL’s response. I think the protests, being entirely peaceful and silent, are in keeping with the best traditions in American history, and I think the NFL’s response is morally wrong. “Just business” doesn’t excuse immoral behavior. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/116 "2018-05-30T00:36:25Z")
Penzey’s spices is a great example. They decided to a overt and explicit stand against the bigotry Trump himself has been spewing since before the election. They have been vocal, specific, and clear what they they think of him. They were were willing to lose business because sometimes there is more to this life than business and the idea that the almighty dollar is the end all. Sure there has been some backlash but they keep doing what they feels right, speaking out against bigotry. In the end, I think they’ve done more business than they lost. > **[The C.E.O. Who Called Trump a Racist (and Sold a Lot of Spice Mix)](https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-gastronomy/ceo-who-called-trump-racist-penzeys-spice-mix)** > > Bill Penzey, who owns the largest independent spice retailer in the U.S., is upending the conventional wisdom that business and politics don’t mix. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/117 "2018-05-30T00:37:50Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Hmmm, where to start. > > Yes, the NFL doesn’t ‘own’ the anthem. They have been playing it, as most leagues do, for a long time, probably decades. > > Yes, unless slavery comes back into vogue, Americans are free. But they can’t do whatever they want - they can’t shoot a person, they can’t sneak beer into the stadium (most of the time), and if you’re an employee, you have to follow the employer’s rules, or face the consequences. That applies to both the NFL and ABC. > > Both properties have the right to protect their brand. [**I]Kap, and now Roseanne, are out of a job because they acted in a way that is contrary to their employer’s best interests.**\* And both (or will) suffer the slings and arrows of the public. They made their choices… after all, both were ‘free’ to do what they did. While I have no prticular objection to what you wrote here, I would slightly amend the bolded portion to say “”…because they acted in a way that in their bosses opinion their bottom line would be affected." It’s not science (at least, not yet; it’s getting there) in being able to predict how the masses will react (and more importantly, _continue_ to react) to various provocations. ABC execs saw the tweets, saw cast members and staff leaving, and calculated (probably without too many facts), that 're-habilitating" Roseanne would cost more in viewers, and more importantly, advertisers, than it was worth. The thing to remember is that these decisions are not arrived at logically or with studies or even with discussions of morality, but by executive’s ‘gut’ feelings and the Almighty Bottom Line. IMHO as always. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/118 "2018-05-30T00:47:10Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Wow, an emotional liberal, what are the odds? Well, the primary distinction between conservatives and liberals is, “Which can feel actual human emotions,” so I guess you’re not wrong there. But the issue you’re missing is that nobody\* is really arguing that what NFL or ABC has done is illegal. The NFL is absolutely free to censure or support their players, as they see fit. ABC can drop or support Roseanne, that’s entirely their call, and nobody is saying that legally, that should be different. **Bricker** ’s “I support this and the NFL because laws!” is a distraction, because this isn’t a legal debate. It’s a moral/ethical debate, and **Bricker** has a long habit of deliberately mistaking one for the other, hence the hostility he’s receiving in this thread. \*Nobody worth worrying about, at any rate. There are, of course, knobs at either end who don’t understand that the first five words of the first amendment are “Congress shall make no law…” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/119 "2018-05-30T01:04:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, the primary distinction between conservatives and liberals is, “Which can feel actual human emotions,” so I guess you’re not wrong there. Now, now; anger, envy, resentment and fear are indisputably human emotions, and conservatives have amply demonstrated their capacity for feeling those. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075/120 "2018-05-30T01:07:24Z")
Yessir. That sig line of mine isn’t about Democrats. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-claiming-it-was-a-joke-you-piece-of-crap/815075.md?page=7)