# Stop Frenchifying the "J" in Indian words, dammit! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2005, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040 "2005-10-06T13:18:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/1 "2005-10-06T13:18:56Z")
Why, why, why do people think that foreign words require making the “J” sounds into French? Indian languages don’t have the French “J” or (zh). The “J” in Rajiv or Raju or Panjab or Jawaharlal is pronounced just like the “J” in “judge.” So stop it! Goddammit. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/2 "2005-10-06T13:23:11Z")
While they’re at it, they can stop Germanifying the J in Mah-Jongg too. If it was a Y sound in Chinese it would be transcribed as a Y in English! ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/3 "2005-10-06T13:26:46Z")
And stop Latinizing them too. Rajul is not Ra-HOOl and Tejas is not Tay-HOSS. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/4 "2005-10-06T13:39:43Z")
And stop Jewishisizing words as well: _Tuchas_ is _too-hass_, not too-kus. What?.. ;j ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/5 "2005-10-06T13:41:54Z")
Wouldn’t that be Spanishifying? Latinifying the J would be the same as Germanifying it. I think some Brits have a misconception about the pronunciation of “J” in Spanish. In _A Question of Attraction_ by David Nichols, the main character wonders whether “Baja” in “Baja California” is pronounced “baja” or “baya.” Well, it’s neither of them. It’s pronounced “baha.” “Baya” would be a Germanified or Latinified pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/6 "2005-10-06T13:42:22Z")
I guess I don’t understand why we’re all expected to know how every letter is pronounced in every language. Why can’t you just politely correct me and move on? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/7 "2005-10-06T13:47:00Z")
Because we’re an increasingly multicultural society and you’re just an ethnocentric old poop? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![hawkeyejo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e19b73/32.png) [@hawkeyejo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawkeyejo)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/8 "2005-10-06T13:48:38Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > I guess I don’t understand why we’re all expected to know how every letter is pronounced in every language. Why can’t you just politely correct me and move on? And what’s the fun in that? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/9 "2005-10-06T13:51:58Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > Because we’re an increasingly multicultural society and you’re just an ethnocentric old poop? 😉 Hmm. Possibly. Seriously, when faced with an unfamiliar word or name, people will try to associate it with something they do know how to pronounce. 'Round here, most people would probably try to pronounce Rajiv as raw-heev. Just correct them, and then they’ll know. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/10 "2005-10-06T14:01:16Z")
Actually, I agree with **This Year’s Model**. My comment was more in jest. You can’t possibly know how to pronounce various words in all languages. And even if you could, you couldn’y possibly know the ethnic origin of every person. So Tejas may look Indian, and so you call him TAY-Jus. But his response might be: “It’s Tay-HOSS you clown, I’m Mexican!” ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/11 "2005-10-06T14:05:12Z")
Grady: I will have the enchilada platter with two tacos and no guacamoles. Mike? Smy: Yeah, chief. I’ll have a chinchilla. Rabbit: I don’t get it. Tacos? Ramathorne: They think I’m Mexican. Rabbit: [shocked] You’re not? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/12 "2005-10-06T14:10:28Z")
I’m not talking about situations in which you might not know that a particular name is Indian. I’m talking about situations in which the speaker knows very well that he is saying an Indian word, whether in the workplace or – my personal pet peeve – on the news. It happens far too often. (Not only with Indian words, but with words in other languages, like “Beijing”) And why, when confronted with an unfamiliar word, wouldn’t you just default to the standard English pronunciation of “J” instead of the French pronunciation? “If it’s foreign it must be French.” is the thinking here. And that’s worse than just not knowing. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/13 "2005-10-06T14:11:56Z")
Oh, and how exactly am I supposed to correct every T.V. and radio news reporter who Frenchifies the Js? This isn’t a matter of common courtesy. It’s a matter of fundamental lack of adequate education among the educated class. ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/14 "2005-10-06T14:12:44Z")
Let’s all talk like [Sardo Numspa](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091129/) instead, **Yackknifed Yuggernaut**. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/15 "2005-10-06T14:18:56Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > It’s a matter of fundamental lack of adequate education among the educated class. OK, so only the “educated class” is expected to know how every letter is pronounced in every language? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/16 "2005-10-06T14:59:36Z")
Seriously, why would every reporter - any any reporter - be better equipped to know how to pronounce Indian words than anyone else? I certainly don’t. If I encounter such a word, I’ll give it a shot and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/17 "2005-10-06T15:20:17Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > And why, when confronted with an unfamiliar word, wouldn’t you just default to the standard English pronunciation of “J” instead of the French pronunciation? “If it’s foreign it must be French.” is the thinking here. And that’s worse than just not knowing. Oh, fucking suck it up and move on. I guarantee you that you’d mispronounce my name based on your knowledge of English pronounciation. I’ve learned to just gently correct people and move on. Or just ignore it. Frankly, despite \* years \* of education, I have no idea how “j” is pronounced in most of the [6800+](http://www.krysstal.com/langfams.html) languages currently spoken on the planet Earth. If I go to an Italian restaurant, I’m going to slaughter the pronounciation, because reasoning from analogy with my high school French or acquired bits of other Romance languages doesn’t help much. And why, you ask, don’t I bother to educate myself in the correct pronounciation? Because I spend maybe five minutes a year in a situation where it would be helpful to know the right pronounciation, the cost/benefit tradeoff is pretty much ridiculously slim, and like any skill that I don’t use every day, I’m sure to forget the correct pronounciation by the time it becomes useful again. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/18 "2005-10-06T15:29:13Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Oh, fucking suck it up and move on. I guarantee you that you’d mispronounce my name based on your knowledge of English pronounciation. I’ve learned to just gently correct people and move on. Or just ignore it. > > Frankly, despite \* years \* of education, I have no idea how “j” is pronounced in most of the [6800+](http://www.krysstal.com/langfams.html) languages currently spoken on the planet Earth. If I go to an Italian restaurant, I’m going to slaughter the pronounciation, because reasoning from analogy with my high school French or acquired bits of other Romance languages doesn’t help much. And why, you ask, don’t I bother to educate myself in the correct pronounciation? Because I spend maybe five minutes a year in a situation where it would be helpful to know the right pronounciation, the cost/benefit tradeoff is pretty much ridiculously slim, and like any skill that I don’t use every day, I’m sure to forget the correct pronounciation by the time it becomes useful again. The question you are responding to is “Why wouldn’t you just default to the standard English pronunciation instead of the French pronunciation?” None of what you say here addresses that question. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/19 "2005-10-06T15:36:25Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > The question you are responding to is “Why wouldn’t you just default to the standard English pronunciation instead of the French pronunciation?” None of what you say here addresses that question. Because people are _trying_ to do their best. They know it’s not an English word, and are giving their best shot to pronouncing it appropriately, so that someone else doesn’t come along and chide them for pronouncing a foreign word as if it were English. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040/20 "2005-10-06T15:51:45Z")
What I’m not seeing here is why you would find the English-based mispronunciation more agreeable than the French-based one. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-frenchifying-the-j-in-indian-words-dammit/325040.md?page=2)