# Stop murdering babies, you anti-vax morons! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 24, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312 "2010-06-24T02:51:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/1 "2010-06-24T02:51:40Z")
> [@](#): > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/24/us/24cough.html?ref=us](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/24/us/24cough.html?ref=us) > > After the deaths of five infants, California health authorities declared an epidemic of whooping cough in the state on Wednesday, urging residents — particularly those of Latino background — to get vaccinated against the disease. > > The announcement came after authorities noticed a sharp spike in reports of pertussis, the scientific name for whooping cough, which often is mistaken for a cold or the flu and is highly contagious. All told, 910 cases have been confirmed, with several hundred more under investigation. If the pace keeps up, the outbreak could be the largest in the state in 50 years, the California Department of Public Health reported. Vaccinate your babies, people. Whooping cough breaks ribs ribs. Whooping cough leads to pneumonia, brain damage and death in little tiny babies. Fuck. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/2 "2010-06-24T03:00:50Z")
Okay, but it doesn’t look like that is an issue here. Seems these Latino farmworkers aren’t vaccinating because they don’t know any better, not because they think it will cause autism or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/3 "2010-06-24T03:06:02Z")
Some parents may not have access to health care. Others, however, are just plain stupid: > [@](#): > > [http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local&id=6131662](http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local&id=6131662) > > The Contra Costa County Health Department is closing East Bay Waldorf School in El Sobrante until Monday because of a whooping cough outbreak. More than a dozen cases have been reported. > In the East Bay, a contagious disease has shut down an entire school. > > Whooping cough has made more than a dozen kids sick. It’s easy to avoid with a simple vaccine. > > It’s a three day weekend at East Bay Waldorf School in El Sobrante that no one wanted. > > “If there is an outbreak in the school that is the only way to take stock on what’s going on and to make sure its the best way to protect children. Its best to err on the side of caution,” said CDC Director Julie Gerberding. > > Whooping cough has similar symptoms to the common cold, but can cause violent coughing spasms that last several minutes and is especially dangerous to young children. > > Students attending California schools are required to get immunizations for whooping cough but parents can opt out. > > The state averages a 99 percent immunization rate. But at East Bay Waldorf School, health officials say less than 50 percent are protected from the disease and say that’s why it was able to spread so easily. Upper class twits. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/4 "2010-06-24T03:19:26Z")
> [@](#): > > [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704324304575306721199436474.html?mod=WSJ\_topics\_obama](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704324304575306721199436474.html?mod=WSJ_topics_obama) > > While California’s lowest vaccination rates are in largely rural northern counties like Nevada and Tuolumne, the Bay Area has many pockets of non-vaccinators, according to state data. That is particularly so in affluent areas where some parents believe in alternative medicine and worry about potential negative effects of vaccination. > > At an elementary school in Alameda, 30% of kindergarteners last year didn’t get pertussis vaccines due to parental-belief exemptions, according to state officials. In affluent Piedmont, all three public elementary schools had immunization rates of 89% or less. In Atherton, parents of 29 of the 86 new kindergarteners last year—34% of the class—opted out of the vaccine. > > The pockets of low vaccination rates here may have rippled out to locals like Jennifer Lombardi. The Berkeley mother of three says she didn’t suspect pertussis when her 14-year-old son began coughing this spring. But over Memorial Day weekend, “he came bursting into our room at four in the morning with his hands around this neck making this crazy sound,” Ms. Lombardi says. “He couldn’t breathe.” Doctors diagnosed him with pertussis, and put everyone in the entire family—who are all vaccinated—on antibiotics. > > Last week, though, Ms. Lombardi and her 11-year-old son developed coughs. Their doctors, she says, told them to expect to cough for the next three months. > > While California children are required to receive pertussis vaccines before kindergarten, the state is one of about a dozen to allow exemptions for parents’ personal beliefs. These people just make me crazy. How many babies need to die before they admit their “personal beliefs” are just plain wrong? Worse contagious and dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Nya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@Fish\_Nya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Nya)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/5 "2010-06-24T03:36:02Z")
Considering how crazy a lot of these people are, even after babies die they won’t change their minds. And the anti-vax movement is disheartening. But, there are [people out there fighting ignorance](http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?cat=36). Hopefully some of these people who are not the hardcore followers will learn the truth instead of just listening to Jenny McCarthy. A side-note- Penn and Teller are doing an episode on the anti-vax movement on their show “Penn & Teller: Bullshit!” which looks like it will be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![xcheopis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bc8723/32.png) [@xcheopis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xcheopis)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/6 "2010-06-24T03:42:18Z")
A lovely comic from TallGuyWrites: [The Facts In The Case Of Dr. Andrew Wakefield](http://tallguywrites.livejournal.com/148012.html), a short history of the modern nti-vacc movement. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/7 "2010-06-24T03:54:12Z")
One of the funny (and by funny I mean stupid) things about the anti-vax movement is that they’ll think “what’s the big deal, anyway? When was the last time you heard of someone dying from polio or measles or something? Clearly it’s not a big danger so it’s no big deal to vaccinate anyway”. But the reason that we don’t have to deal with these diseases is because of those vaccinations, you fucking retards. Do you think people who grew up in the 40s and 50s who saw people crippled by polio or died from diseases that are practically wiped out now scoff at vaccines? Fuck no, they saw the horrible diseases that we’ve managed to nearly eradicate in action and they’re thankful we managed to conquer them. It must blow their minds that people refuse vaccines. Anyway - I expect that we’re going to see a backlash against the anti-vax movement when we start seeing nearly eradicated diseases pop up and start killing people again. Which really sucks, because the people who will pay the price here are not the idiot parents but their kids and the few people who can’t take/benefit from vaccines due to medical conditions. People are going to have to suffer and die for millions of morons to get over this stupid, stupid conspiracy theory. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/8 "2010-06-24T03:54:27Z")
The pertussis vaccine (usually administered as part of the DTaP vaccine) is administered in 5 stages. The first dose is generally given at 2 months, with the remaining doses given at 4, 6, and 15 months, and 4-6 years. The babies who died of whooping cough in the story were all under the age of 3 months. Even children who received 3 or 4 doses can contract pertussis (although they are 80-85% less likely to contract it). So even if these parents did get their children vaccinated, it wouldn’t guarantee immunity. The real problem is that there are adults out there who are transmitting the disease. What you really should be saying is “Vaccinate yourselves, people.” [http://www.vaccineinformation.org/pertuss/qandavax.asp](http://www.vaccineinformation.org/pertuss/qandavax.asp) ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/9 "2010-06-24T05:05:50Z")
For what it’s worth, I was fully vaccinated as a child, and I still got pertussis as a young teen. I am told that it is not uncommon for it to wear off around then. I missed six weeks of school entirely and was on a sharply reduced schedule for the next six. ETA: That said, I fervently support vaccination and serve on the Board of Directors for the parent organization of the Washington Immunization Action Coalition. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/10 "2010-06-24T11:00:02Z")
> [@ENugent](#): > > For what it’s worth, I was fully vaccinated as a child, and I still got pertussis as a young teen. I am told that it is not uncommon for it to wear off around then. All the more reason to make sure everyone is vaccinated - herd immunity keeps everyone safe. ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/11 "2010-06-24T11:05:26Z")
When I saw the clipped-off title on the main page, I thought this was an abortion thread. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/12 "2010-06-24T12:30:42Z")
[http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com](http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/13 "2010-06-24T13:11:23Z")
Diminishing herd immunity in California may not be to blame for these five deaths. What’s clear is that lots more children in California (and elsewhere) are at risk because of lowered pertussis vaccine uptake rates in the general population, and responsibility for that lies heavily with antivaxers and their campaign of misinformation and fear. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/14 "2010-06-24T13:18:10Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Do you think people who grew up in the 40s and 50s who saw people crippled by polio or died from diseases that are practically wiped out now scoff at vaccines? Fuck no, they saw the horrible diseases that we’ve managed to nearly eradicate in action and they’re thankful we managed to conquer them. It must blow their minds that people refuse vaccines. As someone who did grow up during the period specified, yes, it does blow my mind. I got the measles as a kid, before the vaccine was widely available. I have partial hearing loss in one ear as a result. My children are fully vaccinated. > [@](#): > > Anyway - I expect that we’re going to see a backlash against the anti-vax movement when we start seeing nearly eradicated diseases pop up and start killing people again. Would that were true. But those kinds of diseases have already popped up. Didn’t make a dime’s worth of difference. The power of human denial is nearly unlimited. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/15 "2010-06-24T16:41:17Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > [http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com](http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com) That is fucking outstanding. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/16 "2010-06-24T17:18:12Z")
Libertarians argue they should be at _liberty_ to act on their _own_ medical research, not that of some left-wing government doctor. I don’t know (or care) if libertarians also argue they should be at _liberty_ to let their children get preventable disease. Li-ber-tar-i-ans, just because the name of their political ilk uses five syllables, strut around smugly thinking they have 3-digit IQ’s. _But instead, they’re not even dimly aware of a simple fact I learned in primary school:_ > [@SenorBeef](#): > > One of the funny (and by funny I mean stupid) things about the anti-vax movement is that they’ll think "what’s the big deal, anyway? … > Anyway - I expect that we’re going to see a backlash against the anti-vax movement when we start seeing nearly eradicated diseases pop up and start killing people again. Which really sucks, because the people who will pay the price here are not the idiot parents but their kids and the few people who can’t take/benefit from vaccines due to medical conditions. People are going to have to suffer and die for millions of morons to get over this stupid, stupid conspiracy theory. This. The government doesn’t want to coerce John Libertarian’s son Johnny to get vaccinated because it gives a shit about a stupid libertarian’s son! It’s protecting Johnny’s playmates! People who don’t even know this much shouldn’t be allowed to vote, let alone strut their stupidities at SDMB. (PS: Since we’re in **BBQ Pit** I took the opportunity to hold a mirror up to “libertarians”. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/17 "2010-06-24T17:18:22Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > [http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com](http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com) That’s a beautiful thing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/18 "2010-06-24T17:26:15Z")
Are American children typically vaccinated against pertussis? I don’t remember that being the case in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/19 "2010-06-24T17:32:10Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Libertarians argue they should be at _liberty_ to act on their _own_ medical research, not that of some left-wing government doctor. I don’t know (or care) if libertarians also argue they should be at _liberty_ to let their children get preventable disease. > > Li-ber-tar-i-ans, just because the name of their political ilk uses five syllables, strut around smugly thinking they have 3-digit IQ’s. _But instead, they’re not even dimly aware of a simple fact I learned in primary school:_ I don’t know why you’re going to town on libertarians on this issue - almost all the antivaxers I’m aware of (I’m having a hard time thinking of one that’s not) are dipshit new agey liberals. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312/20 "2010-06-24T17:42:19Z")
The anti-vaccination libertarians are all living in caves prepared for the coming anarchy. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-murdering-babies-you-anti-vax-morons/544312.md?page=2)