# Stop Panicking! **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [June 28, 2024, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447 "2024-06-28T15:26:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/181 "2024-06-29T18:53:13Z")
Time for all of us who are in favor of democracy to GOTV. It works. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/182 "2024-06-29T19:31:17Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > You’d rather cheerlead for the president Of course I would. The only alternative is accepting a Trump victory. All this talk of him leaving the race is a fantasy and does nothing but improve Trump’s odds of winning. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/183 "2024-06-29T19:32:20Z")
The Washington Post editorial I linked is in fact paywalled. I forgot I have a subscription. Here are some quotes. > Despite the tenor of some of the insta-reaction to the debate, the choice is not easy. Mr. Biden clinched enough delegates to win the Democratic nomination [three months ago](https://apnews.com/article/biden-presumptive-nominee-election-president-democrat-63b66006d4bc45354343228e323e3baa). The only way Democrats can nominate someone else at their convention in Chicago seven weeks from now is if the president chooses to step aside. And that would be complicated. Whether it would be more chaotic than Mr. Biden remaining in the race is answerable only if one concludes things can’t get worse. > Mr. Biden bowing out would not guarantee a Democratic victory in November. History does not provide any precise precedents, but it’s notable that Republican challengers prevailed in 1952 and 1968 after Presidents Harry S. Truman and Lyndon B. Johnson both opted not to seek reelection. In the second case, [the Democratic convention](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/11/looking-back-at-the-1968-democratic-national-convention-00091441) — also in Chicago that year — descended into chaos amid protests over the war in Vietnam. The party wound up nominating Johnson’s vice president, Hubert H. Humphrey. > Finding a suitable replacement this year, at the last minute, would be more difficult than it was in 1968, and the eventual candidate could emerge politically wounded, as Humphrey did. Mr. Biden has papered over schisms in the Democratic coalition — between progressives and traditional liberals, democratic socialists and socially conservative minority voters — that would instantly widen into chasms at an open convention. And at the end: > Mr. Biden sounded better at a rally in North Carolina on Friday. His defenders point out that he performed well during his State of the Union address in March. There is ample precedent for incumbents losing a first debate and going on to win reelection. If he forges ahead, Mr. Biden would have [four months to rebut fears](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/28/presidential-debate-biden-analysis/?itid=lk_inline_manual_18) about his mental acuity and physical stamina. But occasional good performances are a shaky reed on which to balance an election of titanic consequence. > Little good ever came from panicking. Mr. Biden cannot be coerced into doing something he doesn’t want to do. Nor should he be. What he can do is what many Americans are doing this weekend — wondering whether he is up to the job. For now I prefer to take the WaPo point of view rather than the NYT hair on fire attitude. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/184 "2024-06-29T19:47:32Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > > I will not diagnose Joe Biden. But we can exclude the common cold as an explanation for observed behavior. > > I don’t know why people keep saying this. I shared this in another thread, but bad colds make me a hot mess—spacey, airheaded, sometimes struggling to complete a sentence or find a word. Cold meds make that effect even worse. Same. I’m pretty certain he’s not what he used to be, but I’m also pretty certain that his voice and some of the poor performance was due to a respiratory infection, probably the common cold. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/185 "2024-06-29T19:49:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Of course I would. The only alternative is accepting a Trump victory. All this talk of him leaving the race is a fantasy and does nothing but improve Trump’s odds of winning. At least we are talking about something other than Trump and his latest attention-seeking antics. All this talk may help us all focus on the future of this country and a direct assessment of what has been accomplished in the past four years and what is at risk. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/186 "2024-06-29T19:55:45Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I will not diagnose Joe Biden. But we can exclude the common cold as an explanation for observed behavior. “I won’t diagnose him, but he’s too old and infirm to be president and needs to drop out of the race now” is certainly a take. Seems like once upon a time we considered it admirable when our leaders soldiered on through illness. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/187 "2024-06-29T20:00:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Of course I would. The only alternative is accepting a Trump victory. All this talk of him leaving the race is a fantasy and does nothing but improve Trump’s odds of winning. Right. Our choices are Biden or fascism. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/188 "2024-06-29T20:10:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Right. Our choices are Biden or fascism. Correction: Our choices are _(insert Democratic candidate)_ or fascism. I don’t want to use the term “cult,” since we’re nowhere near that level yet, but for all the talk about how the GOP embraces Trump regardless of anything, there’s a certain…rigid circle-the-wagons-around-Biden ethos in the Democratic camp right now that is getting to a level close to the emperor’s new clothes. It’s as if it’s taboo or anathema to suggest Biden be replaced, and that those who do are _bad people_. It’s gotten to the point that in some Reddit subs, those who suggest that Biden be replaced are even accused of being Russian bots. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/189 "2024-06-29T20:12:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Correction: Our choices are _(insert Democratic candidate)_ or fascism. Those were our choices this time last year. Biden is our only choice now. You cannot start a presidential campaign from scratch four months before the election and expect to succeed. If Biden drops out, Trump wins. > [@Velocity](#): > > It’s gotten to the point that in some Reddit subs, those who suggest that Biden be replaced are even accused of being Russian bots. The Russians would love for Biden to drop out. They’ve been helping Trump smear him for five years now. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/190 "2024-06-29T20:13:25Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > > > You’d rather cheerlead for the president > > Of course I would. The only alternative is accepting a Trump victory. All this talk of him leaving the race is a fantasy and does nothing but improve Trump’s odds of winning. This could be more panicky than my reaction to the debate (Biden should drop out). If the choice is Biden or Trump, minds are made up. That’s why Biden won’t see a Rishi Sunak-style polling collapse. The disaster is that Biden lacked the skills needed to climb out of his hole. Thinking Trump will give Biden another chance to shine is the fantasy. You may be panicking because of failing to see the advantages of going outside the primary system. The primary system is a circular firing squad that damages the candidates. If the DNC were to run a debate or two among leading Democratic possibles, they would be on their best behavior, trying to position themselves for 2028 or 2032. Harris would do fine. But if Joe dallies, in deciding to drop out, so long that there’s no time for a pre-convention debate, it still would work, just as it did before debates and primaries. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/191 "2024-06-29T20:13:38Z")
Me panicking: I worry about how others will vote while voting for Biden. Me not panicking: I don’t worry about others while voting for Biden. Panicking isn’t constructive, but I don’t see how it’s a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/192 "2024-06-29T20:18:01Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > You may be panicking because of failing to see the advantages of going outside the primary system. The primary system is a circular firing squad that damages the candidates. If the DNC were to run a debate or two among leading Democratic possibles, they would be on their best behavior, trying to position themselves for 2028 or 2032. Harris would do fine. But if Joe dallies, in deciding to drop out, so long that there’s no time for a pre-convention debate, it still would work, just as it did before debates and primaries. The last time an incumbent Democrat dropped out of the race the result was a Republican landslide. The entire reason the primary system even exists in its present form is to prevent a repeat of 1968. Your plan would give the new nominee less than two months to catch up to a man who’s been fundraising and enjoying the support of his entire party apparatus for years and it simply can’t be done. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/193 "2024-06-29T20:26:14Z")
If the goal is to beat Trump, and everyone’s motive for voting against Trump is to beat Trump (as we’re so often told,) then Biden dropping out shouldn’t affect the race. Why should an anti-Trump voter stop voting against Trump just because Trump is now going up against Newsom, Whitmer or Pritzker? The logic is still the same: **“Trump is a horrid fascist, so it’s imperative to keep him out of the White House.”** What part of Biden leaving the race alters any part of that assumption? I’ve never seen any anti-Trump voter give a convincing reason why Biden being replaced by another (D) should make them any less motivated to vote against Trump. This is like saying, “Given a choice between apple juice and cyanide, I would choose not to drink the cyanide, but if you replaced the apple juice with orange juice…” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/194 "2024-06-29T20:31:57Z")
Your assumptions are wrong. People have all kinds of different motives for voting. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/195 "2024-06-29T20:33:10Z")
If we beat Trump this time, he goes away. For good. Then we can start the process of healing from all the damage he has done. That message should be enough to win. For anyone. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/196 "2024-06-29T20:39:41Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Correction: Our choices are _(insert Democratic candidate)_ or fascism. Any “insert Democratic candidate” other than Biden will lose to trump. > [@Velocity](#): > > It’s as if it’s taboo or anathema to suggest Biden be replaced, and that those who do are _bad people_. I Yes, indeed they are bad people. We picked Joe Biden in the primaries and unless he declines, it is a travesty of democracy to pick anyone else. > [@Smapti](#): > > If Biden drops out, Trump wins. Yep. > [@Velocity](#): > > The logic is still the same: **“Trump is a horrid fascist, so it’s imperative to keep him out of the White House.”** What part of Biden leaving the race alters any part of that assumption? “They ignored my vote, my choice- I voted for Joe not xxxx”. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/197 "2024-06-29T20:47:53Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The logic is still the same: **“Trump is a horrid fascist, so it’s imperative to keep him out of the White House.”** What part of Biden leaving the race alters any part of that assumption? You can’t just pluck Biden out of “Joe Biden For President” and slot in a new guy like a relief pitcher. Campaign finance law doesn’t work that way. Your new candidate now has no money, no staff, no ground game, no ads, no GOTV operation, and four months to catch up to a man who’s been raising funds continuously for a decade and has the undivided support of his party apparatus. Remember when Walter Mondale.got subbed in for Paul Wellstone in 2002? Because that’s what you’re suggesting. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/198 "2024-06-29T20:53:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You can’t just pluck Biden out of “Joe Biden For President” and slot in a new guy like a relief pitcher. Campaign finance law doesn’t work that way. Your new candidate now has no money, no staff, no ground game, no ads, no GOTV operation, and four months to catch up to a man who’s been raising funds continuously for a decade and has the undivided support of his party apparatus. And on top of that: > **[Heritage Foundation working on election legal challenges in case Biden pulled...](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/heritage-working-election-legal-challenges-case-biden-pulled-from-dnc-nomination.amp)** > > The Heritage Foundation, a major conservative activist organization, is prepared to start legal battles in multiple swing states if Democrats try to swap Biden out of the party nomination. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/199 "2024-06-29T20:56:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The last time an incumbent Democrat dropped out of the race the result was a Republican landslide. Do you mean Humphrey-Nixon? The margin in the popular vote was 0.7 percent (although it was close to an electoral college landslide). And Johnson dropped out because his policy was failing. So Humphrey was stuck with the same problem. Biden would be dropping out because he is beset with age-related difficulties. Harris (or an alternative like Newsom) solves the problem. Then it is Trump who is too old. Harris would also be stuck with Biden policies that, while not failures, are perceived by many swing voters as failures. So a Democratic victory certainly would not be guaranteed. But, unlike now, it would be impossible to predict who would win. If Biden drops out, we move from justified panic to justified concern. Good news is that Biden is under enormous pressure to drop out. He would have to be unusually stubborn to stand up to it. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/200 "2024-06-29T21:07:35Z")
Anyone arguing for President Biden leaving the race at this late date had better have gamed out all the disadvantages to that move as well as the advantages. Still amazed that the _New York Times_ editorial board did not even try to do that. > **[Opinion | To Serve His Country, President Biden Should Leave the Race](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/opinion/biden-election-debate-trump.html?unlocked_article_code=1.3U0.fxKP.SrpCjxQiYQet&smid=url-share)** > > The president’s inadequate performance in the debate made it clear he is not the man he was four years ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447.md?page=11)