# Stop Panicking! **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [June 28, 2024, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447 "2024-06-28T15:26:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/301 "2024-06-30T19:24:05Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > And several others say otherwise, including me. Well, my experience is that I think differently when I have a bad cold, and generally not as well, and I’m definitely not as alert. The effect is probably even stronger on someone as old as Biden. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > If that was Biden’s problem – and I sure hope it was – then we’ll see much better performances in the future, hopefully including one or more much better debates. > > If this were an SNL skit, he’d turn in the same performance at the next debate, and patiently explain that, _heh, you’re not gonna believe this, but, after another week of preparing, I just now came down with a cold again, first time since June…_ But it’s not an SNL skit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/302 "2024-06-30T19:43:01Z")
Well, then, what excuse should he use _in the real world_ if his next performance is significantly similar to the last one? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/303 "2024-06-30T19:52:58Z")
If he does well next time, he won’t need an “excuse”. If he does poorly, no excuse will help. Your whole premise is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/304 "2024-06-30T20:11:35Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Upon hearing of our perspective here, Yale [quote=“Aspenglow, post:298, topic:1003447, full:true”] > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > The design is for the Vice President to step in when the President is temporarily compromised. Step in legally so she has full control. > > I’m well aware of the design for vice president. No need for the lecture. > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > If the President is compromised by a cold to the point where we are talking about altered mental status then there is a deeper problem. > > He wasn’t compromised to that point. Go rewatch the debate. He stumbled over his words a couple of times, not an abnormal thing for him due to his speech impediment. He was slow. The rest of the time, I think he was just not prepared for the format or the torrent of lies. He thought having memorized the facts and figures would be enough, not realizing that a 2-minute format was a poor one for that strategy. > > Still, he responded appropriately except when he garbled his words over the Medicare thing. He did at times look utterly gobsmacked that Trump could lie so brazenly about things that are ridiculously untrue, such as that Democrats abort (“kill”) babies after 9 months, they just “set them aside,”; that he, Trump, had lowered insulin costs for Americans; that he, Trump, had solved the pandemic. I mean, those lies are beyond staggering. I don’t think Biden believed anyone would be so baldly dishonest. > > I also don’t think anyone else would have done much better with that format and an unending torrent of lies coming from Trump except possibly Gavin Newsom, who is very quick on his feet. Funny; Newsom’s not seeking the job. He’s Biden’s most staunch defender. > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > So did he have altered mental status because he took a DayQuil or was he just a little off his game? > > He was a lot off his game. That doesn’t make him mentally incompetent or unable to perform his duties, as has been repeatedly pointed out. You are losing sight of the fact that this is the cite I was responding to: “Upon hearing of our perspective here, Yale professor of psychiatry Marshal Mandelkern concurred: “As a clinician, when someone presents with ‘altered mental status’ I would always think of the possibility of drug ingestion as a cause. This is not only common, it is usually the most benign explanation for a change in mental state.”” Is that really what we are thinking? Biden was roofied with cold medicine? He was in an altered mental state? Do you agree with that? If the president is in an altered mental state then the VP should step in. Do I think he was in an altered mental state? No I don’t and I think it’s a ridiculous excuse to put forth. What I do think is that at his age and physical condition relatively minor things will throw him off his game. That’s not a good quality for a president either. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/305 "2024-06-30T20:12:56Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Your whole premise is ridiculous. If someone had asked me, right before the debate, a hypothetical based on Biden doing exactly as poorly as he wound up doing — if they’d set me up for it by speculatively doing a perfect impression of, say, the clip that’s been getting replayed since — I’d have said that their whole premise was ridiculous. And yet, here we are. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/306 "2024-06-30T20:24:56Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Is that really what we are thinking? Biden was roofied with cold medicine? He was in an altered mental state? Do you agree with that? If the president is in an altered mental state then the VP should step in. Are we really pretending that cold medicine doesn’t make you groggy? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/307 "2024-06-30T20:26:13Z")
Seriously. “Altered mental state” sounds pretty ominous, but “groggy” fits the bill. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/308 "2024-06-30T20:43:10Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > If he does well next time, he won’t need an “excuse”. > > If he does poorly, no excuse will help. And waiting until September to be able to assess whether or not Biden was just ‘on cold medicine’ or whether something else is happening is … a good idea? The voters who will matter in November aren’t reading any of this. They don’t care about excuses featuring Nyquil. They will care only about what they’re going to be seeing on endless repeat in GOP commercials. (Namely: “we beat Medicare” etc.) Everyone here knows that Biden has been losing to Trump in polls for months. Sure, you can talk up problems with polls. But in 2020 there was no such pattern of Biden consistently barely tying Trump or losing to him, month after month after month. The concept that only Biden can stop Trump may have made sense in 2020. It does not make sense now. All the talk about how Biden has a great record (and he does) and how Trump is horrifically awful (and he is) is meaningless. What matters is HOW PEOPLE VOTE. All those voters who pay little attention to the news are also paying little–or more likely–NO attention to the arguments that Biden has a great record and We Owe It To Biden To Support Him and that four months is too short a time to run a campaign (despite the fact that many nations do it in less). They are paying little, or more likely, NO attention to excuses for Biden’s performance on Thursday night. They are not taking into account Biden being a stutterer or Biden having over-prepared or any of the rationales Democrats are using to talk themselves into the idea that Biden can still win. Image is everything in American politics. To assume that we can somehow shame voters into stopping doing whatever they prefer or need to do with their time, and instead put that time into informing themselves about a politician’s record, is foolish. “SHOULD” is pointless in elections. Voters SHOULD excuse Biden because he had a cold. Voters SHOULD be aware of the avalanche of awfulness that is Donald Trump–and that effort to vote for the Dem is the only way to stop him. Voters SHOULD take the time and energy to vote even if they don’t find the candidate inspiring. Voters SHOULD realize that Biden is a good man who’s done good things, and let that knowledge wipe out what they’ve seen with their own eyes–that he can be slow and confused and feeble. SHOULD leads to another Trump Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/309 "2024-06-30T20:48:30Z")
Ron Filipkowski shares his thoughts. [https://meidasnews.com/news/for-the-good-of-the-country-its-time-for-some-pundits-to-retire](https://meidasnews.com/news/for-the-good-of-the-country-its-time-for-some-pundits-to-retire) ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/310 "2024-06-30T21:06:37Z")
Very well said—thanks for sharing. I especially liked the analogy of all the gnashing of teeth being “group therapy.” I think that’s pretty astute. People (me included) live in terror of another Trump term, and for months we’ve been told it’s at best a toss-up. This “disaster” finally provides an opportunity to do something. Let’s change candidates! There’s a certain comfort in action when in a constant state of inaction and anxiety. And while I don’t think people are being disingenuous, there must be a flicker of “no down side” in their thoughts. If Biden stays in and he wins, who will complain? If he stays in and he loses, they called it. If he’s replaced and we lose, well, Biden shouldn’t have been in there in the first place. I think it’s human nature to champ against relentless powerlessness against a terrible possibility. It’s awful. In my 63 years, though, I have found strategies of “Let’s do something! _Anything!_” to almost invariably fail. Joe is our best chance, like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/311 "2024-06-30T21:28:45Z")
For all those saying, “it was just the cold! [and / or] cold medicine!” : 1. So what? Do you really think the sort of people influenced by their reaction to the sight will significantly change their assessment when a reason is found and happily vote for him? & 1. Do you really believe that a grown-ass adult doesn’t KNOW how colds and / or cold medicine affect them, individually, and that Biden didn’t have a plan in place to mitigate any colds and medicine in his system? In other words, the “due to cold (medicine)” explanation sounds like an ad hoc explanation, designed to satisfy our desire that this be an exceptional one-off and not a genuine reflection of how he does on a bad day. It seems more like magical thinking than anything, relying on a punch of unprovable hypotheticals, and falls foul of Ockham’s Razor: Old Man is Old. I fully expect Trump to have several moments where he, too, shows his age, but it’s harder to tell if someone’s off if they’re already illogical, unprepared, and batshit insane. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/312 "2024-06-30T21:30:50Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > “SHOULD” is pointless in elections. Voters SHOULD excuse Biden because he had a cold. Voters SHOULD be aware of the avalanche of awfulness that is Donald Trump–and that effort to vote for the Dem is the only way to stop him. Voters SHOULD take the time and energy to vote even if they don’t find the candidate inspiring. Voters SHOULD realize that Biden is a good man who’s done good things, and let that knowledge wipe out what they’ve seen with their own eyes–that he can be slow and confused and feeble. > SHOULD leads to another Trump Presidency. This, a thousand times. Thank you. I am about to lose it if I hear another progressive/liberal/Democrat say that Biden is going to win because the American electorate _should (or ought to)_ reject the incompetent, immature, lying, insert-your-preferred-adjective Donald Trump. By that logic, Hillary would never have lost in 2016. “Should” doesn’t mean a thing. This isn’t a just-world universe. There isn’t some sort of referee or scriptwriter who’s watching over this whole election to make sure that justice prevails and the strings of righteousness/karma get properly pulled. Should the American electorate vote for Biden over Trump regardless of how horrid Biden’s debate performance was? Of course. But it’s a fact that at least 40% - and perhaps close to 50% - **won’t.** You might as well say that Adolf Hitler **should** have called off his invasion of his European neighbors in WWII. Sure, but he wouldn’t. You have to deal with what IS. If I may butcher-twist a Donald Rumsfeld quote, as disliked a person thought he may be: _“You don’t go to war based off of the way you wish things were. You go to war based off the way things ARE.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/313 "2024-06-30T21:33:09Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I think it’s human nature to champ against relentless powerlessness against a terrible possibility. It’s awful. In my 63 years, though, I have found strategies of “Let’s do something! _Anything!_” to almost invariably fail. I think this is quite right. I’m (as I said above) panicking, and I think you’ve described my psychology pretty well here, as well as the reasons that the best strategy is to ignore the urge to change and let cooler heads prevail. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/314 "2024-06-30T21:34:06Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Do you really think the sort of people influenced by their reaction to the sight will significantly change their assessment when a reason is found and happily vote for him? I think you overestimate how much the average voter cares about debate performance. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Do you really believe that a grown-ass adult doesn’t KNOW how colds and / or cold medicine affect them, individually, and that Biden didn’t have a plan in place to mitigate any colds and medicine in his system? For most people, that plan would be “stay in bed”. Not an option when you’re the president of the United States. A leader who soldiers on in the face of physical frailty is to be admired, not pitied. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > In other words, the “due to cold (medicine)” explanation sounds like an ad hoc explanation, designed to satisfy our desire that this be an exceptional one-off and not a genuine reflection of how he does on a bad day. If this isn’t an exceptional one-off then please point to the many other times Biden has performed like that. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/315 "2024-06-30T21:37:22Z")
I am not a repub or democrat. I have no horse in this race. I have had bad colds before, also had severe cramps where I wished I were unconscious. It never made me foggy. Biden just needs to give some more public speeches where he does fine and this will likely blow over. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/316 "2024-06-30T21:37:53Z")
Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/317 "2024-06-30T21:52:48Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > I have had bad colds before, also had severe cramps where I wished I were unconscious. > It never made me foggy. And I’ve had colds where I could barely speak and my entire body hurt and I had to just lie in bed with my eyes closed because even trying to look at my phone was too much effort. And I’m half Biden’s age. It’s entirely plausible that a bad cold and the wrong combination of meds could make him groggy and have difficulty speaking while under pressure, and I find it bizarre that we have people dismissing the idea that we can say he had a cold while simultaneously declaring that we can definitely determine he’s lost his mind. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/318 "2024-06-30T21:52:58Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > “Should” doesn’t mean a thing. This isn’t a just-world universe. There isn’t some sort of referee or scriptwriter who’s watching over this whole election to make sure that justice prevails and the strings of righteousness/karma get properly pulled. Correct. To add another example of the **Magical Thinking** that Dr.Drake mentioned in an excellent post (in a slightly different context): _‘Biden will win if Dems stop talking about the debate and just shut up and support him. And if Dems discipline themselves in this way, Republicans will also stop talking about the debate and all the commercials and TikToks and YouTubes showing Biden being slow and confused will cease immediately. And Biden will win.’_ Magical Thinking will not win in November any more than SHOULD will win in November. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/319 "2024-06-30T21:59:11Z")
This whole thing is kind of getting pointless. It’s just people screaming that A plus B equals C while others scream back that A plus B equals D. It’s getting nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/320 "2024-06-30T22:07:58Z")
**[Here’s](https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2024/06/30/gps-0630-panic-over-bidens-debate-performance.cnn)** a 7m45s video from this morning’s GPS with Fareed Zakaria. His guests are [**Edward Luce**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Luce) of the _Financial Times_ and [**David Frum**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Frum) of _The Atlantic._ I like the notable lack of histrionics or ‘bedwetting’ on either side. Anything new here? Not really. But – particularly Frum – gives/reinforces a level of granularity and historic context that was helpful _to me._ To me, there’s a piece of this that I can only consider as Economics: cost/benefit. As the price of oil goes up, certain methods of extraction make economic sense. The polling data – for Biden, for Harris, and for anybody else whose name might come up – matters. Those paid to analyze that data and decide these things put a lot of time and trouble into understanding the strengths and weaknesses and the margins of error of most of these polls. If somebody were a stronger candidate to beat Adolf Trump in November _by a wide enough margin to make the logistical and administrative mountains worth climbing,_ then I’d want to know it. Frum’s take on the logistical and administrative _does_ tend to shift me toward the camp that highly doubts that the math could possibly work with anybody else but Ol’ JRB. Today 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447.md?page=17)