# Stop Panicking! **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [June 28, 2024, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447 "2024-06-28T15:26:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/761 "2024-07-11T00:23:36Z")
If you could only win by cheating or other immoral behaviour, should your side engage in said behaviour? (Anonymous poll.) _Poll ([view on site](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/761))_ ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/762 "2024-07-11T00:44:18Z")
Not really a fair question as it does not include the critical part. The question is if your competitor is winning by cheating, should your side then cheat too? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/763 "2024-07-11T01:15:44Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > The trouble with Democrats is most of us do not feel comfortable outright lying, while it seems Republicans do not mind. Just because Donald Trump is a liar does not mean Biden hasn’t had his own issues with the truth. And frankly this handicaps his ability to call Trump out on his lies. And this happened in the debate as well. His claim that no service members died during his administration was not only a falsehood but one that pissed a lot of people off. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/764 "2024-07-11T01:25:16Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > If you could only win by cheating or other immoral behaviour, should your side engage in said behaviour? Other. You can win Monopoly that way. But I’m not at all sure you can construct, or maintain, a society that way; or, at any rate, one that was worth becoming immoral to get there. I don’t think it’s possible to get there on that road; it’s not where that road goes. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/765 "2024-07-11T01:32:48Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Just because Donald Trump is a liar does not mean Biden hasn’t had his own issues with the truth. And frankly this handicaps his ability to call Trump out on his lies. > > And this happened in the debate as well. His claim that no service members died during his administration was not only a falsehood but one that pissed a lot of people off. A really good way to tell if someone is lying on purpose or whether they are simply confused or mis-speaking is to point out the falsehood and see if the speaker, once corrected, keeps repeating it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/766 "2024-07-11T01:41:45Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > If you could only win by cheating or other immoral behaviour, should your side engage in said behaviour? If you’re playing baseball and the other team’s batter draws a pistol and shoots the shortstop in the knee, is it immoral for your pitcher to bean him? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/767 "2024-07-11T01:43:11Z")
I think that either both should be called out their lies _equally_, or neither should be. Which of Trump’s lies during the debate made you that upset? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/768 "2024-07-11T01:43:59Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > The trouble with Democrats is most of us do not feel comfortable outright lying, while it seems Republicans do not mind. True, Dems like the half lie, GOP like the Big Lie, and MAGAs the “pants on fire”… **But NOTHING we could make up would be worse than trump really is.** So, the Dems dont need to lie or cheat. Just take off the gloves. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/769 "2024-07-11T01:44:16Z")
Googling “Biden repeats false claim that” comes up with plenty of results. I.e.: > **[Fact check: Biden repeats his false claim that he ‘used to drive an...](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/24/politics/fact-check-biden-driving-18-wheeler/index.html)** > > President Joe Biden has revived a debunked tale about his past – his fictional claim that he used to drive an 18-wheeler truck. Granted, I can’t _prove_ that Biden had this pointed out to him. Or perhaps he was corrected but was drifting asleep at the time. Impossible to know. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/770 "2024-07-11T02:20:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If you’re playing baseball and the other team’s batter draws a pistol and shoots the shortstop in the knee, is it immoral for your pitcher to bean him? Yes, obviously. “I’m not as bad as the other guy!” is hardly a moral argument. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/771 "2024-07-11T03:29:29Z")
I have no moral compunction against playing by the same rules, and breaking the same rules, as my opponent does. Problem is that I suspect I’d be a bad cheater, and maybe even be more likely to get caught. In short I think “aiming high” is more likely to give me a better result, not only in this round but also in future rounds, than cheating will. It’s a pragmatic choice. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/772 "2024-07-11T03:30:31Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > I’m thinking, in the next debate (if there is one), Biden should ignore the first question, point at Trump and say “This guy’s been found responsible for a half-billion dollars worth of fraud. He’s been convicted of 34 election fraud felonies. He’s a career con man. It’s safe to assume everything he says from this point forward is complete bullshit.” Why did Biden do this in the first debate? Like this didn’t occur to Biden and his handlers? Hell, could have just borrowed from Ronnie, and every time on the retort “There you go again making shit up, Donald.” ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/773 "2024-07-11T13:07:59Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Not really a fair question as it does not include the critical part. > > The question is if your competitor is winning by cheating, should your side then cheat too? And if your competitor, after winning by cheating, will blow up your country’s tradition of democratic rule? ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/774 "2024-07-11T13:09:51Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > > [@Akaj](#): > > > > I’m thinking, in the next debate (if there is one), Biden should ignore the first question, point at Trump and say “This guy’s been found responsible for a half-billion dollars worth of fraud. He’s been convicted of 34 election fraud felonies. He’s a career con man. It’s safe to assume everything he says from this point forward is complete bullshit.” > > Why did Biden do this in the first debate? Like this didn’t occur to Biden and his handlers? Hell, could have just borrowed from Ronnie, and every time on the retort “There you go again making shit up, Donald.” I assume you mean “Why _didn’t_ Biden do this in the first debate?” And I’m guessing the answer is, because he thought it was more honorable and decent to win with facts. Now that that tactic has failed, I’d prefer to see him unleash Dark Brandon. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/775 "2024-07-11T13:25:03Z")
# [Democrats ask Rudd for advice](https://chaser.com.au/general-news/democrats-ask-rudd-for-advice-on-knifing-leader-months-before-an-election/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1N3V3RNSDq3o4N81oNUH5zFbjUQlyrg-Y8ePvPaxxFzTuf38pjKEI57JQ_aem_x1546-7INxBNh-McxBEWwA) on knifing leader months before an election [![](https://i.ibb.co/S7zRdgS/Rudd-Consulting.jpg) ](https://i.ibb.co/S7zRdgS/Rudd-Consulting.jpg) For context, Kevin Rudd is an ex Australian Labor Prime Minister and the current Australian Ambassador to the US. Rudd became leader of Labor by deposing Kim Beazley as Leader of Opposition in a party room coup. Won a landslide victory in 2007 and because PM. Was deposed as PM in 2010 by the Julia Gillard faction, before in turn deposing Gillard in 2013, then losing the 2013 election two months later ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/776 "2024-07-11T13:31:55Z")
For even more context, _The Chaser is an outlet determined to answer the question ‘what if a satire outlet wasn’t profitable’ while fighting Rupert Murdoch’s empire of satirical outlets._ ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/777 "2024-07-11T13:32:17Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > And if your competitor, after winning by cheating, will blow up your country’s tradition of democratic rule? And if your cheating will do the same thing? ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/778 "2024-07-11T13:33:50Z")
Better us than them. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/779 "2024-07-11T13:34:42Z")
Better that we join them? ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447/780 "2024-07-11T13:40:19Z")
No, better that we win than they win. Look, this is all part of an answer to a somewhat silly poll upthread. And I know “cheating” (whatever form that may take) makes us, in theory, no better than the other guys. But I don’t care. We know what will happen if Trump wins and the GOP takes Congress. We’ve already seen what this SCOTUS is capable of. If cheating is what it takes to stop that catastrophe, I’m all for it. And I don’t think it will lead to some worse future. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-panicking/1003447.md?page=40)