# Stop referring to the President of the United States as the "Leader of the Free World"

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [January 29, 2017, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467 "2017-01-29T01:34:14Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/21 "2017-01-29T05:37:55Z")

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> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> 😕 Non sequitur? Being the biggest and strongest person in the room doesn’t automatically make you the leader of the people in the room.

Absolutely does in international relations. The US’s present leadership is due to that and nothing else. Lets not forget the US entered Europe and the Pacific on the backs of force and retains its primacy there vide force.

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**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/22 "2017-01-29T05:56:23Z")

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> [@AK84](#):
>
> Absolutely does in international relations. The US’s present leadership is due to that and nothing else.

Huh. By that metric, is China the “leader of Asia”, for example? ISTM that “leader” in this geopolitical context is generally used to imply some demonstration of _leadership_, not just being big and strong. Likewise, is Russia the “leader of Eastern Europe”?

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**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/23 "2017-01-29T06:01:29Z")

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> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> Huh. By that metric, is China the “leader of Asia”, for example? ISTM that “leader” in this geopolitical context is generally used to imply some demonstration of _leadership_, not just being big and strong. Likewise, is Russia the “leader of Eastern Europe”?

China is contained in the Far East by an even stronger power (for how much longer, who knows). Ditto Russia in Eastern Europe. Russia is still dominant in the Caucases, C Asia and you know, Belarus, Moldova etc.

Its an interesting delusion Americans have that their leadership is due to their benevolent nature rather than raw naked power. No one in the Middle East nowadays, or Indo-China a generation ago or Latin America since ever has ever has any doubts.

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**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/24 "2017-01-29T06:17:08Z")

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Quite.  
[And Americans shown this truth ascribe it to envy and hatred.]

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**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/25 "2017-01-29T06:52:57Z")

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> [@AK84](#):
>
> China is contained in the Far East by an even stronger power (for how much longer, who knows). Ditto Russia in Eastern Europe. Russia is still dominant in the Caucases, C Asia and you know, Belarus, Moldova etc.

But that’s not an answer to my question. Within Asia itself, is China “the leader”? Likewise Russia within Eastern Europe?

Or is “the leader” exclusively a global concept, so that only the _world_ leader is entitled to the term?

In any case, even if the term “leader” _per se_ in this geopolitical context is just a size/strength metric and has no moral connotations, ISTM that a phrase like “Leader of the Free World” definitely does.

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**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/26 "2017-01-29T07:02:17Z")

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The President of the US is the “Leader of the Free World”?

Well, let’s see. I’m a part of the “Free World,” and yet I did not get to vote for or against the current US President.

Given that the majority of citizens of the Free World did not get to vote for Leader of the Free World (anybody else note how USSR-ish that sounds?), I will disregard the US President as “Leader of the Free World,” and instead refer to him as “President of the United States.”

Or “Cheeto in Chief.” Depending on how I’m feeling.

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**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/27 "2017-01-29T10:52:34Z")

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> [@Muffin](#):
>
> Thanks for starting this thread, Northern Piper. It needed to be said.
> 
> [The USA is no longer a full democracy, and instead has deteriorated into a flawed democracy.](http://www.eiu.com/Handlers/WhitepaperHandler.ashx?fi=Democracy-Index-2016.pdf&mode=wp&campaignid=DemocracyIndex2016)
> 
> It had an opportunity to pull up its socks with Obama, but chose not to by electing whom it did to Congress.

Did you read your article? The US became a so-called “flawed democracy” under Obama.

> [@](#):
>
> The US, a standard-bearer of democracy for the world, has become a “flawed democracy”, as popular confidence in the functioning of public institutions has declined. The score for the US fell to 7.98 from 8.05 in 2015, causing the world’s leading economic superpower to slip below the 8.00 threshold for a “full democracy”.
> 
> \<snip\>
> 
> The US has been teetering on the bring of becoming a “flawed democracy” for several years, and even if there had been no presidential election in 2016, its sore would have slipped below 8.00.
> 
> \<snip\>
> 
> Trust in political institutions is an essential component of well-functioning democracies. Yet surveys by Pew, Gallup and other polling agencies have confirmed that public confidence in government has slumped to historic lows in the US. This has had a corrosive effect on the quality of democracy in the US, as reflected in the decline in the US score in the Democracy Index. The US president, Donald Trump, is not to blame for this decline in trust, which predated his election…

Now, I am more than happy for folks to quit calling us, and by extension our president, the Lead of the Free World. Let some other sucker country take on that mantle and see how well it fits, and how much it likes being said leader.

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**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/28 "2017-01-29T11:22:28Z")

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It’s the weirdest phrase.

Like an assumption of ownership or something. Fuck. Off.

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**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/29 "2017-01-29T13:00:34Z")

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In an ideal world, yes. But the brute fact is that the world system as we have inherited it from the post-1945 settlement is substantially an American creation and the size of the American economy and military, and the soft power impact of American culture, _necessarily_ make the USA the leader.

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**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/30 "2017-01-29T13:08:20Z")

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> [@PatrickLondon](#):
>
> In an ideal world, yes. But the brute fact is that the world system as we have inherited it from the post-1945 settlement is substantially an American creation and the size of the American economy and military, and the soft power impact of American culture, _necessarily_ make the USA the leader.

That settlement (well 1945 and 1989 modification) is no longer particularly valid.

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**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/31 "2017-01-29T16:01:09Z")

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> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> 30.5 of the States voted for him, so yes, he is the leader of a majority of the States.

Nah. He’s the \*President \*of all of the United States. I’m not one of those who are still so in denial that I can’t accept he’s “my President.” He’s my President, all right. He’s just not my leader.

When all but one of your actions your first week in office are met by widespread protest in the street, you ain’t leadin’ shit.

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**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/32 "2017-01-29T19:56:26Z")

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> [@Ambivalid](#):
>
> I am seriously wondering if do not know that no spaces go between the end of a sentence and it’s ending punctuation. Doing it now and then could be explained away as typos/oversights. But literally everything you post is this way. Why ?

Corrected version in accordance with **[Gaudere’s Law](https://ianferrel.wordpress.com/2005/05/19/gauderes-law/)**:

“I am seriously wondering if **you** do not know that no spaces go between the end of a sentence and [del]it’s[/del] **its** ending punctuation.”

😛

More seriously, I find that on my iPhone, the “return” button is very close to the “space” button, and when I’m typing with my thumbs, I often hit “return” instead of “space”. Since there’s no preview function on Tapatalk, mistakes of that sort often slip past me.

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**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/33 "2017-01-29T20:17:39Z")

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I always put a space before these characters. Such was the way in printed books before the 1960s, and such it will always be ! Don’t all decent people ?

Closed-up spaces just look cheap and nasty! Seriously how many electrons are you saving?

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**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/34 "2017-01-29T20:36:58Z")

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Back near the start of the 20th century, periods and commas came close following the end of the word, exclamation marks and question marks were further away, and colons and semi-colons were even further away. By those standards, Northern Piper was correct in his typography, for he passed away in WWI and participates on the internet today as a ghost, using what was correct when he was living.

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**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/35 "2017-01-29T20:42:57Z")

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> [@Evan\_Drake](#):
>
> Quite.  
> [And Americans shown this truth ascribe it to envy and hatred.]

Right-wing Americans probably do. But we’re not all right-wingers.

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**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/36 "2017-01-29T21:00:53Z")

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> [@AK84](#):
>
> That settlement (well 1945 and 1989 modification) is no longer particularly valid.

But it exists. And if the only alternative on offer is a return to old-style Great Power manoeuvring, as Putin more or less openly argues for and seems to be trying to get Trump to go along with, then the outlook is bleak indeed.

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**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/37 "2017-01-29T21:04:49Z")

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Well, better than mushroom clouds.

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**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/38 "2017-01-29T21:20:26Z")

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> [@running\_coach](#):
>
> [Weirdly enough:](http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/4645/is-it-ever-correct-to-have-a-space-before-a-question-or-exclamation-mark)  
> Can’t vouch for the accuracy of this, just found it interesting.

**Kobal2** puts the spaces before punctuation, too and (s)he is definitely from [del]Remulac[/del] France.

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**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\
**Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/39 "2017-01-30T04:01:46Z")

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> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> Corrected version in accordance with **[Gaudere’s Law](https://ianferrel.wordpress.com/2005/05/19/gauderes-law/)**:
> 
> “I am seriously wondering if **you** do not know that no spaces go between the end of a sentence and [del]it’s[/del] **its** ending punctuation.”

NM, I get it now. Sort of weaksauce but I get it. 🙂

But see, that’s an example of a typo, which I explicitly said was not what I was commenting on.

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**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\
**Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-referring-to-the-president-of-the-united-states-as-the-leader-of-the-free-world/778467/40 "2017-01-30T10:08:52Z")

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> [@purplehearingaid](#):
>
> I was just telling my daughter the Trump needs to go read what written on the  
> Statute of Liberty ! ☹

Surely the rhetoric on the Statue of Liberty can’t apply in perpetuity. There comes a time when it just isn’t practical or sensible to welcome more and more immigrants. One may argue that the time isn’t yet, one may argue that it is, but the invitation can’t be open-ended.

As for Leader of the Free World that’s just a statement of fact rather than an endorsement of politics. The US is a free country still until the Constitution changes.

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