# Stop saying ka-BOOL, goddamnit! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2006, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829 "2006-03-25T03:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/41 "2006-03-26T07:37:06Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > [“Stop saying ‘Yerushalayim’! Your ‘R’ is wrong, your ‘L’ is wrong, your vowels are much too rounded. You may think your saying it ‘right’, but all you’re doing is being a pretentious, condescending ass. Plus, you sound like an idiot. Just say ‘Jerusalem’ and get it over it - at least THERE’S a word you can pronounce properly and save what’s left of your dignity.” > > I’d much rather people speak good English than Hebrew with a bad American accent. I suspect Arabic speaker feel similarly. OK, I can see how a consistent, heinous butchering of a word would get on your nerves, but what if the mispronouncing person in question said “Yerusalem” rather than trying for the “R” that so many people have trouble with? Why is it condescending or undignified to try to say the word as it is called by the people who live there? If a foreigner could say it correctly, would that be OK, or is it always pretentious to try to say the word as natives say it if you’re a non-native? ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/42 "2006-03-26T07:38:55Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > OK, I can see how a consistent, heinous butchering of a word would get on your nerves, but what if the mispronouncing person in question said “Yerusalem” rather than trying for the “R” that so many people have trouble with? Why is it condescending or undignified to try to say the word as it is called by the people who live there? If a foreigner could say it correctly, would that be OK, or is it always pretentious to try to say the word as natives say it if you’re a non-native? Because you’re fucking it up and you look like an overreaching buffoon. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/43 "2006-03-26T08:04:17Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > OK, I can see how a consistent, heinous butchering of a word would get on your nerves, but what if the mispronouncing person in question said “Yerusalem” rather than trying for the “R” that so many people have trouble with? Why is it condescending or undignified to try to say the word as it is called by the people who live there? If a foreigner could say it correctly, would that be OK, or is it always pretentious to try to say the word as natives say it if you’re a non-native? Because ‘Yerushlem’ is equally wrong. I don’t mind people speaking with an accent - after all, my parents have been here for 30 years and they still sound like New Jersey. What bothers me is people who don’t speak the language trying to speak specific words and inserting them in English sentances. You can’t cherry-pick. Either you speak the language, or you don’t, and the fact that you _think_ you can pronounce a word an a manner vaguely similar to that of a native speaker while at the same time being utterly incapable of uttering a single coherent sentance in the language, doesn’t impress anyone. In other words, yes, it is always pretentious to try to say the word as natives say it _if you don’t actually speak the language_. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/44 "2006-03-26T08:05:12Z")
> [@](#): > > I still call it Peking Duck. Shoot me. It’s Hasenpfeffer Season. He doesn’t have to shoot you now. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/45 "2006-03-26T08:37:53Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Couple of questions on this topic that I’ve been wondering about, though this might not be the right forum for this: > > Why the hell don’t Americans (I’m not sure how it is in other English-speaking countries) call places by the names that natives call them? Turin/Torino is one that was on my mind recently due to the Olympics. Is it so hard to say “Torino”? Why was the Olympic coverage calling it “Torino” when it was always called “Turin” in America before that? > > What about country names like Italy/Italia, etc.? It has always struck me as odd that we stick to these Anglicized pronunciations. Is it a form of English-centric chauvanism? Or is there another reason for it of which I am unaware? Why isn’t it considered disrespectful to pronounce a name wrong when you know and are capable of pronouncing it correctly? Calling Saddam Hussein “SAD-dam” instead of “Sad-DAM” always seemed like a deliberate slam, just like “eye-RACK” or “eye-TAL-ian” does. > > I have noticed that some people think it’s pretentious to pronounce foreign names with the correct accent. A friend of mine was visiting Central America recently and was using a Spanish accent when saying the place names, and another friend scolded him, saying he was an American, and he sounded like a jerk saying, “Pah-nah-mah” instead of “PAN-a-ma.” Why? > > There was a trend of places changing and trying to enforce the pronunciations of their names in the native tongue-- Bombay/Mumbai, Ivory Coast/Cote d’Ivoire, Peking/Beijing. Is this trend going to continue? Why do some places get all hardcore about the native pronunciation? > > If these questions are hijacks, lemme know and I’ll start another thread somewhere else. Um, I answered this question, twice, in posts above. RTFT. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/46 "2006-03-26T09:34:20Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Um, I answered this question, twice, in posts above. RTFT. Yeah, I RTFT and no, you didn’t answer the question. I don’t understand your hostility, esp. when I’m agreeing with you overall. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/47 "2006-03-26T10:41:29Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > So if I consistently mispronounced your name, you’d be okay with it as long as I’d done it long enough? You wouldn’t eventually be like “Hey man, we’ve been hanging out together for years now, maybe it’s time you learned how to say my name” eventually?And you wouldn’t mind if I taught my kids and in fact everyone I know to say your name wrong? My name is Josh. English speakers - such as my parents - say it in the standard American style: “Jaash”. Hebrew speakers, when speaking Hebrew, pronounce it with the Hebrew equivalent of the letter “O”, which puts it somewhere between “Joshe”, “Jawsh” and “Jush”. Occasionally, a Hebrew speaker will attempt to say it American style - “Jaaash”. I _hate_ that. That’s not my name in Hebrew (it’s not my Hebrew name, either; that’s “Yehoshua”, which I never use). Don’t say “Jaaash” unless you want to piss me off. So, yes. That’s my answer to your question. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/48 "2006-03-26T11:13:50Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > What’s the right way to pronounce Iraq? > > I’ve heard: > > I-rack > E-rack\* > I-rock > E-rock > > \*Is how I say it. Well, I know I’m considered linguistically abnormal by all and sundry (as evidenced by “You’re not from around here, are you?” being the first thing said by many people who meet me for the first time), but I pronounce Iraq as _Eyerahk_, and Kabul as _Kahbull_. Similarly, geographic conversations with me will often end up involving: _Loss Anjahleeze_ (Los Angeles) _Brizzbin_ (Brisbane) _Orkland_ (Auckland, not a place in Middle Earth) _MossCo_ (Moscow) _Huhwaiyee_ (Hawaii) _Rayjzarvick_ (Reykjavic) _Kairow_ (Cairo) You get the idea… I maintain it’s because I pronounce the “A” in many things as “Ah”, and am generally well-spoken, although other insist it’s because I spent too much time overseas and my accent is messed up… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/49 "2006-03-26T16:07:09Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Yeah, I RTFT and no, you didn’t answer the question. I don’t understand your hostility, esp. when I’m agreeing with you overall. No particular hostility: “RTT” seemed too cryptic, and “RTFT” was kind of a riff on “RTFM,” which doesn’t seem particularly hostile to me. And I did, in fact, discuss “traditional” mispronunciations in two different posts above, which seem to me to be disregarded by your question that comes after: _“What about country names like Italy/Italia, etc.? It has always struck me as odd that we stick to these Anglicized pronunciations. Is it a form of English-centric chauvanism? Or is there another reason for it of which I am unaware?”_ The questions in your post seem to totally disregard the points I made above. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/50 "2006-03-26T16:08:20Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > So if I consistently mispronounced your name, you’d be okay with it as long as I’d done it long enough? You wouldn’t eventually be like “Hey man, we’ve been hanging out together for years now, maybe it’s time you learned how to say my name” eventually?And you wouldn’t mind if I taught my kids and in fact everyone I know to say your name wrong? Yup. Like **Alessan** , my name is pronounced one way by speakers of one language, and another way by speakers of German. But, as with ee-RAHK and eye-RAHK, there are a few different English pronunciations that will work, and I generally prefer the one that’s closer to the original. I used to get all snotty and correct people when they used one of the pronunciations I didn’t like. Even people like receptionists who would probably never ever say my name again in their lives. If someone repeatedly got it wrong, I repeatedly corrected them. I thought poorly of people who got it “wrong,” even though, not knowing German, there was no earthly reason why they should know. I really let it get under my skin. Then I turned thirteen. I mean, seriously. I know who I am, they know who I am, and there are more interesting things to talk about. Now if people pronounce it wrong, I don’t say anything, unless they’re really floundering, or they ask for help, or they mangle it so badly that it’s really unrecognizable. Life’s too damn short. If someone gets it “right,” I appreciate it, but chalk it up to having a good ear, or knowing a little German, not to being a better person. And, fer crissakes, if someone who isn’t a native English speaker _or_ a native German speaker mangles it, how big of an asshole would I take offense!? And like **Alessan** , it pissed me off when people incongrously use the German pronunciation in English—especially when they try rolling the r’s and shit, which _is_ actually _wrong_, because my family is from northern Germany, where the r is uvular, not rolled. But boy oh boy, don’t they think they’re Smary McSmartenstein, because they pronounce my name all fancy. To give MHO to answer **Rubystreak’s** question, you [general you, not you in particular] do sound pretentious when you make a big deal about using foreign pronunciations, because it’s not about being sensitive to other cultures, it’s about making _you_ sound like the smartest person in the room. Pay close attention to who uses foreign pronunciations and who uses the English versions. In general, fluent non-native English speakers do the latter, and Americans who have spent a year abroad, and want everyone to know about it, do the former. Ever seen the SNL skits where the newscasters order Mexican food? Yeah. And when I’m in Germany, I tell people who don’t speak much English that I’m from “_EE-oh’-vah, in der nähe von Tschikago._” And they say, “Ah, Tschikago!” and we’re golden. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > Why the hell don’t Americans (I’m not sure how it is in other English-speaking countries) call places by the names that natives call them? Turin/Torino is one that was on my mind recently due to the Olympics. Is it so hard to say “Torino”? Why was the Olympic coverage calling it “Torino” when it was always called “Turin” in America before that? This certainly isn’t restricted to English speakers. Just to throw out a couple of examples, in German, France is _Francreich_, while the French call it _la France_ Czecoslovakia is _die Tschechoslowakei_, while in Czech it’s _Československo_ and in Slovak, _Česko-Slovensko_ I mean, usually, it’s a safe assumption that Americans are especially and unusually bigotted, insensitive and culturo-centric, and in general total pricks, but in this case we’re in good company. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/51 "2006-03-26T16:23:35Z")
Okay, well for the record my name is a pretty simple name that is easy to pronounce (kind of like, er, Iraq) and is likely to come up quite often for anyone with an interest in the United States. If anyone massively fails to say my name- turning short vowels in to long ones, mangling the emphasis, etc. _and_ knows better than that, eventually I am going to teach them the right way to say it and expect them to use that. If my name becomes literally daily news and _Al Jeezera_ decides to pronounce it some gnarly way, I’m going to assume they are being disrespectful asses. Just so you are warned. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/52 "2006-03-26T16:38:55Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Couple of questions on this topic that I’ve been wondering about, though this might not be the right forum for this: > > Why the hell don’t Americans (I’m not sure how it is in other English-speaking countries) call places by the names that natives call them? Turin/Torino is one that was on my mind recently due to the Olympics. Is it so hard to say “Torino”? Why was the Olympic coverage calling it “Torino” when it was always called “Turin” in America before that? > > What about country names like Italy/Italia, etc.? It has always struck me as odd that we stick to these Anglicized pronunciations. Is it a form of English-centric chauvanism? Or is there another reason for it of which I am unaware? Why isn’t it considered disrespectful to pronounce a name wrong when you know and are capable of pronouncing it correctly? Calling Saddam Hussein “SAD-dam” instead of “Sad-DAM” always seemed like a deliberate slam, just like “eye-RACK” or “eye-TAL-ian” does. > > I have noticed that some people think it’s pretentious to pronounce foreign names with the correct accent. A friend of mine was visiting Central America recently and was using a Spanish accent when saying the place names, and another friend scolded him, saying he was an American, and he sounded like a jerk saying, “Pah-nah-mah” instead of “PAN-a-ma.” Why? > > There was a trend of places changing and trying to enforce the pronunciations of their names in the native tongue-- Bombay/Mumbai, Ivory Coast/Cote d’Ivoire, Peking/Beijing. Is this trend going to continue? Why do some places get all hardcore about the native pronunciation? > > If these questions are hijacks, lemme know and I’ll start another thread somewhere else. This thread got hijacked long ago. It’s the Pit. 😃 I believe there was a thread some time ago (maybe in GQ?) about place names and why the English-speaking world doesn’t pronounce them like the natives do. It’s probably just because it’s become common usage. The ear of one language group can’t always pick up nuances from another language, so sounds are approximated (I still can’t figure out how the Tejo River in Portugal became the Tagus River in english). Mapmakers from long ago wrote down what they heard, as did historians and geographers. Thus, it’s not a big leap to go from pronouncing Wien as ‘veen’ to pronouncing it phonetically as ‘vee-en’, and onward to ‘vienna’. Once it gets into the lexicon, there’s little chance of turning back, other than in the extraordinary case of Beijing. As someone said, it’s not just Americans or other english-speakers who do this. France’s word for Germany (other than an obscenity) is ‘Allemagne’, and London becomes ‘Londres’. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/53 "2006-03-26T18:35:32Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Just so you are warned. And a warning right back atcha: I strongly recommend that you avoid international fame, for the sake of your own blood pressure, because not everyone is going to pronounce your name the way Americans do. You can either accept it as part of the world’s wondrous diversity, or you can have a bug up your ass about it. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/54 "2006-03-26T18:46:14Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > This thread got hijacked long ago. It’s the Pit. 😃 > > I believe there was a thread some time ago (maybe in GQ?) about place names and why the English-speaking world doesn’t pronounce them like the natives do. It’s probably just because it’s become common usage. The ear of one language group can’t always pick up nuances from another language, so sounds are approximated (I still can’t figure out how the Tejo River in Portugal became the Tagus River in english). Mapmakers from long ago wrote down what they heard, as did historians and geographers. Thus, it’s not a big leap to go from pronouncing Wien as ‘veen’ to pronouncing it phonetically as ‘vee-en’, and onward to ‘vienna’. Once it gets into the lexicon, there’s little chance of turning back, other than in the extraordinary case of Beijing. > > As someone said, it’s not just Americans or other english-speakers who do this. France’s word for Germany (other than an obscenity) is ‘Allemagne’, and London becomes ‘Londres’. I should have added that if you ever intend to travel in the world (perhaps you have), it’s a very good idea to learn what the natives DO call their cities. Trying to figure out where your flight or train is can be a total mystery otherwise; listings like Munchen, Praha, Wien, Mockba, Den Haag, Warshava, Koln, etc. leave most tourists scratching their heads (sorry, purists, I don’t know how to make umlauts, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/55 "2006-03-26T20:22:14Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > That’s right, everyone knows it’s pronounced کابل. > > 😃 It’s spelled Kabul, but it’s pronounced Throat-Warbler Mangrove. ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/56 "2006-03-26T20:26:39Z")
I believe that one should at least _try_ to call individual people by the name that they themselves prefer. With geographic names, however, it gets rather murky. Who decides **which** “locals” get to choose the name? Case in point: Turin / Torino: > [@Rubystreak](#): > > Why the hell don’t Americans (I’m not sure how it is in other English-speaking countries) call places by the names that natives call them? Turin/Torino is one that was on my mind recently due to the Olympics. Is it so hard to say “Torino”? Why was the Olympic coverage calling it “Torino” when it was always called “Turin” in America before that? It’s called “Turin” in English because that was – and still is – its name in [Piedmontese](http://www.e-opinion.info/), the local language (although the Italians refer to it _officially_ as a “dialect”). Turin was an important trading center long before Italy existed as a country and the Italian language dominated the area around Turin. Nowadays, of course, it’s called “Torino” by the majority of people who live there, [and so](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/02/0206_060206_torino.html): > [@](#): > > Unlike past Olympic venues that went by their English names, the IOC chose the Italian version after the city’s leaders lobbied for the change. Also, apparently [NBC’s Dick Ebersol liked the sound of “Torino”](http://wb11.trb.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spwatch274603075jan27,0,1362584.column?coll=wpix-mets-1) for the US TV coverage. > [@Chefguy](#): > > I still can’t figure out how the Tejo River in Portugal became the Tagus River in english. [Tagus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagus) is the latin form: Iberia was part of the Roman Empire, and the name stuck in English. Again, a case of historical precedence, not a matter of silly English people “getting it wrong”. [There’s a related matter of Latinized names being used long after the fall of the Roman Empire, as in the case of [Columbus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus), but _Tagus_ doesn’t fall into this category]. If one **does** decide to use “local names only”, what are we Anglophones supposed to call the Tagus, anyway? The river rises in Spain, where it’s the _Tajo_, and reaches the Atlantic (oops, sorry, I mean _Atlantico_) near Lisbon / _Lisboa_, at which point it’s called the _Tejo_. The Spanish and Portuguese pronunciations are markedly different. Still in Iberia: my friends in Madrid, when speaking Spanish, pronounce “Barcelona” as “_Barthelona_”. Since Barcelona is in Spain, should we all pronounce it as “_Barthelona_”? Even if the pronunciation in [Catalan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_language) (the local language) is closer to the English than to the Castilian Spanish? When I was a teenager and learning German, everything was _München_ this and _Wien_ that. [Podkayne](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7234727&postcount=50) would have recognized me all too well! 😃 Nowadays, I stick to “Munich” and “Vienna” _when speaking English_, except if I’m traveling in the area with a fellow Anglophone and discussing travel plans (when you’re thumbing through the [Thomas Cook European Timetable](http://www.railpass.com/eurail/cooks.htm), aka the CookBook, it takes an active effort to think of all of the English-language names of places!). Bonus question for strict “local name only” folks: how should a French TV News station spell and pronounce the USA’s [50th state](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii)? Do **you** always follow [local practice](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=362225&highlight=hawaii)? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/57 "2006-03-26T20:36:01Z")
> [@Podkayne](#): > > And a warning right back atcha: I strongly recommend that you avoid international fame, for the sake of your own blood pressure, because not everyone is going to pronounce your name the way Americans do. You can either accept it as part of the world’s wondrous diversity, or you can have a bug up your ass about it. Well, I’ve been to 18 countries and I’m about to switch continents soon. Oddly, in all my travels, I’ve never had anyone grossly mispronounce my name. I’m not talking about saying it with an accent or struggling over some of the harder syllables. I’m talking about grossly distorting the name- like saying bear-bear-AAY for Barbara or something. Something along the lines of what we are doing with Iraq. However. around here my extremely simple but somewhat rare last name closely resembles in sound and meaning a popular Spanish last name. I get called that a lot. And anyone I’m close to that keep calling me the Spanish last name will eventually get a polite correction. If for some reason Mexican television decided to say the Spanish version instead of the English version (it’s a common English word), I’d consider them incompetent at best. ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/58 "2006-03-26T21:39:27Z")
I lived in France for four years, and almost all of my francophone friends call me by a slightly different first name than everyone else does. My given name is a Scottish variant of a common English name, and is easily pronounced by everyone in the UK and _most_ Americans. It doesn’t fit easily into French conversation, however, and a lot of my colleagues were stumbling over it. My solution was to go by a slightly different name, a [Breton](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breton_language) variant of a common French name (the Scottish, Breton, English and French are all variations of the same name in this case). This Breton “nickname” was a lot easier for the French to pronounce, and I rarely had to spell it out over the phone so it has saved me a lot of time over the years. Since the Bretons and the Scots are both Celtic folk, use of the nickname actually made cultural sense as well as easing pronunciation. I’d always explain the situation when going beyond casual acquaintanceship, and I never found anyone to be offended when they learned that the name that they’d first heard for me was not my given name. I did not accept variants on my last name, nor usage of anything other than my correct given name in a professional context (conferences, publications, etc. – which occasionally caused problems with redaction). The British and American friends whom I met during my time in France still generally call me by the Breton name, even when speaking or e-mailing in English. It just seems to fit as a reminder of the time and place of our first meeting, and has something of a romantic quality to it. _[“Many are my names in many countries…”]_ Note that in my case it was _my own choice_ to take on a name variant, so the situation was different from when Rajiv is told by his boss at the call center in Bangalore that he is to answer the phone as “Bob”. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/59 "2006-03-26T21:55:23Z")
It’s not just “dumb Americans” or English-speakers in general who do this. What about “Los Estados Unidos” or “Les Etats-Unis”? For that matter, if the Italians are sticking with “Stati Uniti”, why should we bother with Torino, instead of Turin? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/60 "2006-03-26T22:51:30Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > It’s not just “dumb Americans” or English-speakers in general who do this. What about “Los Estados Unidos” or “Les Etats-Unis”? For that matter, if the Italians are sticking with “Stati Uniti”, why should we bother with Torino, instead of Turin? Those would be translations, not different names (los=the; estados=states; unidos=united). Sort of like us saying ‘Union of Soviet Socialist Republics’, which was a translation of the Soviet name for their country. Or ‘OTAN’ being the French version of ‘NATO’. Florence, on the other hand (for example), is the english version of Firenze, not a translation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829.md?page=4)