# Stop saying ka-BOOL, goddamnit! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2006, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829 "2006-03-25T03:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/61 "2006-03-26T23:09:08Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Those would be translations, not different names (los=the; estados=states; unidos=united). Thanks for the hint, Captain. :rolleyes: Florence IS a translation of Firenze: > **[Florence - Dizionario inglese-italiano WordReference](https://www.wordreference.com/enit/Florence)** ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/62 "2006-03-26T23:36:28Z")
**Updike** , “Florence” is not a word with any meaning in English other than when it refers to cities of that name (the most famous being the one in Italy), so it’s not really a **translation** of “Firenze” even if you _can_ find it in some dictionaries. I think **Chefguy** ’s distinction is valid. The “translation” vs “different name” issue is probably why [Côte d’Ivoire](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivory_coast#The_name) is having such a hard time getting outsiders to go along with their ruling: > [@](#): > > In October 1985 the government requested that the country be known as Côte d’Ivoire in every language. In fact, according to national law, the name of the country cannot be translated from French. Of course, this law can only apply within the country itself. If they had chosen a name which _didn’t have a clear meaning in one of the world’s most widespread languages_, or had been less confrontational about it, they might have been able to get some compliance with their request. [Personally, I like to say “Ivory Coast” out loud just to mess with 'em.] ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/63 "2006-03-26T23:53:38Z")
> [@Antonius Block](#): > > **Updike** , “Florence” is not a word with any meaning in English other than when it refers to cities of that name (the most famous being the one in Italy), so it’s not really a **translation** of “Firenze” even if you _can_ find it in some dictionaries. I think **Chefguy** ’s distinction is valid. And “Londres” is not a word with any meaning in French other than when it refers to cities of that name (the most famous being the one in Great Britain) so it’s not really a **translation** of “London” even if you _can_ find it some dictionaries. I think **Chefguy** ’s distinction is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/64 "2006-03-27T00:10:48Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > And “Londres” is not a word with any meaning in French other than when it refers to cities of that name (the most famous being the one in Great Britain) so it’s not really a **translation** of “London” even if you _can_ find it some dictionaries. I think **Chefguy** ’s distinction is stupid. And you’re a fucking moron, but that’s just an opinion as well. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/65 "2006-03-27T00:30:24Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > And you’re a fucking moron, but that’s just an opinion as well. So riddle me this, Batman. What are the positive reasons for using “Torino” in place of “Turin”? ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/66 "2006-03-27T00:37:20Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > And “Londres” is not a word with any meaning in French other than when it refers to cities of that name (the most famous being the one in Great Britain) so it’s not really a **translation** of “London” even if you _can_ find it some dictionaries. Good, we’re in agreement then. To see an example in which **Chefguy** ’s distinction makes real sense, let’s return to [Côte d’Ivoire](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivory_coast): > [@](#): > > The country was originally known in English as _Ivory Coast_, and corresponding translations in other languages: _Elfenbeinküste_ in German, _Costa de Marfil_ in Spanish, _Costa do Marfim_ in Portuguese, _Ivoorkust_ in Dutch and so on. The name is just **begging** to be translated. Now, the largest city and former _official_ (and current _economic_) capital is Abidjan. In 1983 – roughly the time they started insisting on “Côte d’Ivoire” – the smallish city of [Yamoussoukro](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamoussoukro) was made the official capital. If the government had said something like: > [@](#): > > In order to distance ourselves from both the injustices of the French colonial period **and** the despicable trade in elephant tusks, our country will henceforth bear _in all languages on earth_ the name of its capital city, **Yamoussoukro**! I’d be willing to bet that the BBC and others would be calling the country “Yamoussoukro” – a name that does **not** beg to be translated. [The BBC has stayed with **Ivory Coast**]. There might be some holdouts, but the new name would probably soon stick. It worked for **Mali** (formerly _French Sudan_) and **Benin** (formerly _Dahomey_). Oh, and for any government officials out there in _Côte d’Ivoire_ reading this thread: IVORY COAST – IVORY COAST – IVORY COAST !!! ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/67 "2006-03-27T01:24:49Z")
> [@](#): > > In order to distance ourselves from both the injustices of the French colonial period and the despicable trade in elephant tusks, our country will henceforth bear in all languages on earth the name of its capital city, Yamoussoukro! If the Ivorians were so concerned about the “injustices of the French colonial period”, why on earth did they name themselves in French? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/68 "2006-03-27T02:32:58Z")
> [@Antonius Block](#): > > When I was a teenager and learning German, everything was _München_ this and _Wien_ that. [Podkayne](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7234727&postcount=50) would have recognized me all too well! 😃 Only because I have been there, too, my friend. 🙂 FTR, I also no longer correct anyone’s pronunciation of _angst_, _Neanderthal_, or _Fahrvergnügen_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/69 "2006-03-27T17:14:32Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > So riddle me this, Batman. What are the positive reasons for using “Torino” in place of “Turin”? Well, it’s right. In the fight against ignorance, the truth surely counts for something. Most people are not going to be exposed to the native words, and it somehow seems wrong to have roomfuls of Americans hanging around constantly saying something that is wrong. Secondly, it averts misunderstandings. Tourists will appreciate knowing the local names for things. Reading foreign newspapers, etc. will be easier and more likely when ALL of the terminology isn’t so foreign. Business, science, and any enterprise that benefits from a standardized vocabulary will benefit. Most of us will come in to contact with a foreign country at some point, and it’s useful to be armed with all of the info we can have. On a larger scale, it helps avoid some pretty big misunderstandings. For example, there is a lot of controversy as to Christopher Columbus’s origins, because he was called something different in every language. If we had known what his parents had called him, we’d know a little bit more about history. Finally, it’s polite. Refusing to use a country’s preferred name is modern politicalese for “screw you, we don’t recognize your government”. You won’t find many people that call Burma “Myanmar” because most of us don’t recognize their regime as legit. It took us years to start calling the PRC “China”. To do the same to countries we don’t have a beef with seems ill-advised. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/70 "2006-03-27T22:45:32Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Warshava Nitpick: _Warszawa_. Anyhow, I actually did not know that Kabul was pronounced closer to “Cobble” than “kah-bool.” My instinct, from speaking two languages fluently and another four or five with various degrees of proficiency, would tell me to pronounce it as “kah-BOOL” or “KAH-bool”. I would never had settled on “cobble,” but that’s perhaps because I only know Indo-European languages (and a Finno-Ugric one). Now that I know the real pronuncation, I still don’t think I could bring myself to say because everyone, and I mean every single person I know, does pronounce it as _kah-BOOL_. That’s just the way it is. If I want to look like a pedantic ass, sure, I can pronounce it the right way. Then again, I could also pronounce Budapest as BOO-da-PESHT, Krakow as “KRAH-koof,” and so on… ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829/71 "2006-03-28T02:03:49Z")
I once had a manager who called me “Mwock” instead of Marc. I believe he was originally from New York and English was his native language but he just couldn’t pronounce Marc correctly. Just a few weeks ago a guy in my class told me they had Coffee “Skills” in New York. It wasn’t until he said it for the third time that I figured out those “Skills” he spoke of were actually Skittles candy. I don’t expect every native English speaker to pronounce words the way I’m accustomed to so why would I expect it of foreigners and why would they expect it of me? L Doe-Ray-Dough or L Da-Rah-Doe? I know which one to use in Texas and which one to use in Arkansas. Prayg or Prawg? One for Arkansas and one for the rest of the United States. Much ado about nothing, but then I guess we’re all entitled to our own silly little pet peeves. Marc [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-ka-bool-goddamnit/349829.md?page=3)