# Stop saying "that's how the world is" as though it were morally important. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 22, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688 "2009-10-22T01:34:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/21 "2009-10-22T05:30:42Z")
“Dominant,” please. “Dominate” is a verb. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/22 "2009-10-22T05:58:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > In OUR society. Go back to humans in the state of nature ( or as close as humans get ), and murder and rape _ **are** _ the norms. The women tend to be in the hands of the man who killed her last man to take possession of her ( who in turn had killed the man before him ). Everything of value goes to he who is willing to kill for it the most, and the best at killing. Most people die of murder in such cultures. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/23 "2009-10-22T06:19:40Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > “Dominant,” please. “Dominate” is a verb. Yeah I know it was a typo, but thanks. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/24 "2009-10-22T06:29:12Z")
I’m not persuaded that a vegetarian diet would be good for us but a diet of vegetarians, now that could work. We catch them, cook them and eat them. Presto, a rich source of protein and no more constant whining. It’s win-win! ---
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/25 "2009-10-22T06:40:11Z")
Morals are not important. So something being “morally important” means nothing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/26 "2009-10-22T07:38:00Z")
Another thing the “that’s how the world is” overlooks is the fact that by and large the world is still a fucking shithole. Who knows, maybe it was supposed to be better. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/27 "2009-10-22T08:36:55Z")
> [@astro](#): > > “That’s the way the world is” _is_ morally important if it is a common practice of the large majority of human actors and is perceived by almost all people to lie safely within human normative boundaries. This has some similarities with the concept of "[relfective equilibrium](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflective_equilibrium), in that while individuals in a given society will hold differing views, over time these competing views are moderated on a collective level to a position which seems to balance the opinions of all. Western society has had many generations to discuss meat-eating, or rape, or anything else, and over time we’ve arrived at a position which reflects a balanced view… this is always subject to further reflection of course, but arguably when that point of balance is reached that becomes the de facto “morally acceptable” position. ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/28 "2009-10-22T10:59:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > In OUR society. Go back to humans in the state of nature ( or as close as humans get ), and murder and rape _ **are** _ the norms. The women tend to be in the hands of the man who killed her last man to take possession of her ( who in turn had killed the man before him ). Everything of value goes to he who is willing to kill for it the most, and the best at killing. Most people die of murder in such cultures. > > We live in a FAR more peaceful, safe society than that of the past. Especially the distant past. Cite? That is totally different from my understanding of tribal life (some muder/rape, but normally not much). ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/29 "2009-10-22T11:01:42Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > “Right” and “wrong” are artificial human constructs and vary greatly between people and societies. Indeed. It always amused me that in the Norris case (case in Ireland regarding the constitutionality of sodomy laws), judges on both sides cited the natural law as supporting their position. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/30 "2009-10-22T12:12:33Z")
That’s just the way it is. Some things will never change. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/31 "2009-10-22T12:36:23Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > That’s just the way it is. > > Some things will never change. DoodaDEN, doodaDUN, doodadun. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/32 "2009-10-22T13:18:54Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I’m not persuaded that a vegetarian diet would be good for us but a diet of vegetarians, now that could work. We catch them, cook them and eat them. Presto, a rich source of protein and no more constant whining. It’s win-win! If we eat the vegetarians, are we also getting our recommended servings of vegetables? Is this thread inspired by someone who thinks eating meat is morally repugnant? If so, I have to side with **ivn1188** , except I don’t think the sentiment was strong enough. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/33 "2009-10-22T13:51:31Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > If we eat the vegetarians, are we also getting our recommended servings of vegetables? Timing is everything. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/34 "2009-10-22T14:25:08Z")
Let’s say the veg-heads win, and meat eating is banned. Then, someone with a yen for fighting for a cause (for this is the way of the world) will say, “What about the uncountable trillions of insects that are murdered in the way we grow our vegetables???!!! Are not insects living creatures too???” And the airways and cyberways will howl with indignation from ento-lovers all over the world until all fruits and vegetables are grown in bug-proof hyperbolic chambers and pollinated by hand and exterminators over the world are out of work. And then some other crusader will get it into their heads that microbes and viruses should have the same rights as anyone to survive, and antibiotics will be banned after much hoo-hah and millions will die of pneumonia but the cause must go on. It’s common morality. And then, some other tender-hearted soul will say, “Hey! Plants are living things too!!” And on it goes. That’s the way of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/35 "2009-10-22T17:12:11Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It does matter, if only in the sense that, “humans are omnivores” is a statement that can only be made if a the majority do eat meat, and that a majority could only do so if they didn’t find it morally repugnant. Humans are omnivores \*\*regardless \*\*of what they choose to eat or refrain from eating. We are currently evolved to be able to ingest and take sustenance from both plant and animal sources. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/36 "2009-10-22T18:06:34Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > [QUOTE=The Bith Shuffle] > > This is true. Some things are pointless to morally analyze. For example, there’s no use in morally analyzing polar bears eating seals. WHAT?! Those evil BASTARDS! [/quote] Take that back! Polar bears are noble, intelligent creatures not far removed from man, as anyone who has met Iorek Byrnison is well aware. Contrariwise, seals are smug, noisome, great-auk-raping bastiches. By Thor, they’re worse than Welshmen. They **deserve** to be eaten. In fact, they deserve to be eaten alive–foot-first, so as to prolong their suffering. This doesn’t apply to humans clubbing baby seals, of course. It’s a little-known fact that seals only become evil at puberty. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/37 "2009-10-22T18:09:28Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > This doesn’t apply to humans clubbing baby seals, of course. It’s a little-known fact that seals only become evil at puberty. Dude, EVERYTHING becomes evil at puberty ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/38 "2009-10-22T18:57:13Z")
So **Gustav** , you’re saying it _woudln’t_ be okay to time-travel and kill an adolescent Hitler? That’s just how the world works, you know. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/39 "2009-10-22T18:57:40Z")
[QUOTE=The Bith Shuffle;11690427I] think that we have no point in addressing polar bear eating habits because there’s nothing we can effectively do about it. [/QUOTE] Do you see what you’ve done here? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688/40 "2009-10-22T19:09:41Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > WHAT?! Those evil BASTARDS! And they wear FUR, too! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-saying-thats-how-the-world-is-as-though-it-were-morally-important/514688.md?page=3)