# Stop Snitchin' - Is this as bad as it appears to be? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2007, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587 "2007-04-25T14:39:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/1 "2007-04-25T14:39:23Z")
On Anderson Cooper’s show this morning, he did a segment on an apparent willingness in the black community to never snitch – no matter what the crime may be. [CNN.com - Transcripts](http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0704/24/acd.01.html) I apologize for posting the rough version of the transcript, but it’s pretty accurate to the broadcast I saw. He said the message comes through loud and clear in rap lyrics and that kids are taught from a young age that you mind your own business. _Period_. Some of the young people he interviewed said this was absolutely how they behave. > [@](#): > > ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. > A deadly shooting, a millionaire rapper involved – police say at least 25 people saw it. But no witnesses talked. In major cities all across the country, people are dying, and no one is talking. > > Why? Two words: stop snitching, a criminal code of silence now being preached to kids in hip-hop lyrics, rappers like Cam’ron who say you should never talk to cops about crimes. > > COOPER: If there’s a serial killer living next door to you, though, and you know that person is, you know, killing people, would you be a snitch if you called police and told them? > > CAMERON GILES, RAPPER: If I knew the serial killer was living next door to me? > > COOPER: Yes. > > GILES: No, I wouldn’t call and tell anybody on him, but I would probably move. But I’m not going to call and be like, you know, the serial killer is in 4-E. and > [@](#): > > COOPER: Tonight, we’re talking about a crisis. We’re going in- depth on two simple words: stop snitching. > > Now, the slogan was once used by criminals. And it meant, don’t tell on others if you’re caught committing a crime. But now the term stop snitching has come to mean something much more dangerous: Don’t cooperate with the police, no matter who you are. > > You may not have heard it, but your kids have probably. The stop snitching message is being promoted by rappers, marketed by major corporations. And, because of what they are doing and how it’s being distributed, murders are going unsolved, and people are dying. > > We begin with an eye-opening report I did for CBS News’ “60 Minutes.” And then we will have some of the major voices in the issue speak out. > > (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) > > UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop the snitching. > > UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You keep your mouth closed, man. > > UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kill all rats, man. > > GILES: You have run with police. > > COOPER (voice-over): The message appears in hip-hop videos, on T-shirts, Web sites, album covers and street murals. Well-known rappers talk about it endlessly on DVDs. It is a simple message heard in African-American communities across the country: Don’t talk to the police. > > GEOFFREY CANADA, PRESIDENT & CEO, HARLEM CHILDREN’S ZONE, INC.: When I was growing up, kids used to talk about snitching. It never extended, as a cultural norm, outside of the gangsters. It was not for regular citizens. It is now a cultural norm that is being preached in poor communities. I find it hard to believe that mainstream black America abides by this code. I contend that it is confined to a criminal element and not something every youngster who listens to hip-hop buys into. So…what’s your experience? Do most kids in the black community really believe that snitching is the worst thing you can do, regardless of the crime? Do they do it out of fear of the gangsters? The police? Are some crimes ok to cover up and others not? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/2 "2007-04-25T14:49:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Are some crimes ok to cover up and others not? If I believe the government mandated penalty is grossly excessive and cruel in proportion to the offense, I would not snitch. For example, if a house of prostitution and/or marijuana were right next to me, I’d never snitch on them for that. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/3 "2007-04-25T14:52:16Z")
[QUOTE=Blalron] If I believe the government mandated penalty is grossly excessive and cruel in proportion to the offense, I would not snitch. For example, if a house of prostitution and/or marijuana were right next to me, I’d never snitch on them for that. [/QUOTE] I guess I should re-state my OP to limit this to violent crime. I wouldn’t narc out the floozies or the pot-heads either. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/4 "2007-04-25T15:12:01Z")
IME there are groups who would _never_ “snitch”. I have some friends from way back who have grown up in the biker culture. They would not snitch no matter what. They might kidnap and torture the perp of a crime against another biker, but they would never turn the perp over to law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/5 "2007-04-25T15:21:47Z")
There was a big deal about this in Boston a couple of years ago. Stores were selling T-shirts with “Stop Snitchin’” on them, and this provoked an impressive uproar, in which Mayor Thomas Menino got involved. The stores IIRC pulled the shirts. The message doesn’t sit very well here. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/6 "2007-04-25T15:27:26Z")
[QUOTE=vetbridge] IME there are groups who would _never_ “snitch”. I have some friends from way back who have grown up in the biker culture. They would not snitch no matter what. They might kidnap and torture the perp of a crime against another biker, but they would never turn the perp over to law enforcement. [/QUOTE] I hung out on the fringes of the biker community, too and I agree that they’re a very no-snitchy bunch of guys. But they were engaged in criminal activities, which is my point. Do non-criminals in poor black communities (as referenced by Geoffrey Canada) also abide by the no-snitch rule? ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/7 "2007-04-25T15:43:05Z")
It’s definitely a real issue. It’s one of the main reasons that open air drug markets thrive in low income communities. I take issue with the fact that people are blaming hip rap lyrics for it, like most rap, it’s a reflection of what’s already happening in there than the other way around. No the real problem is that the “no snitching” rule is backed up many times by violence, and the overwhelming feeling that the police are unable to protect witnesses who do come forward. There were well published stories about his coming out of Richmond, Oakland and San Francisco about witnesses getting killed after coming forward. I’m a little busy with work at the moment but I’ll try and dig some of them up later this morning. I think community policing was having some effect on this where it was applied. If I recall correctly money as always was the main problem. It’s hard to protect witnesses when the police don’t have the resources to move them out of the community. The fact that someone arrested seem to get access to the information about witnesses was also mentioned in these stories. ---
**Author:** ![Burton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Burton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/8 "2007-04-25T15:48:49Z")
[QUOTE=Stuffy] It’s definitely a real issue. It’s one of the main reasons that open air drug markets thrive in low income communities. I take issue with the fact that people are blaming hip rap lyrics for it, like most rap, it’s a reflection of what’s already happening in there than the other way around. No the real problem is that the “no snitching” rule is backed up many times by violence, and the overwhelming feeling that the police are unable to protect witnesses who do come forward. There were well published stories about his coming out of Richmond, Oakland and San Francisco about witnesses getting killed after coming forward. I’m a little busy with work at the moment but I’ll try and dig some of them up later this morning. I think community policing was having some effect on this where it was applied. If I recall correctly money as always was the main problem. It’s hard to protect witnesses when the police don’t have the resources to move them out of the community. The fact that someone arrested seem to get access to the information about witnesses was also mentioned in these stories. [/QUOTE] I’m sure that’s true to a large extent but in the few seconds I saw where some hip hop guy was being interviewed he certainly didn’t portray it in that manner. I believe he used the word “ethics” in stating it was against some idiotic code of conduct. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/9 "2007-04-25T15:51:22Z")
[QUOTE=Burton] I’m sure that’s true to a large extent but in the few seconds I saw where some hip hop guy was being interviewed he certainly didn’t portray it in that manner. I believe he used the word “ethics” in stating it was against some idiotic code of conduct. [/QUOTE] The kids in the interview said the same thing you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/10 "2007-04-25T16:00:54Z")
Cooper should have asked if this code of silence should be extended to cases like the killing of James Byrd. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/11 "2007-04-25T16:09:29Z")
In lieu of dueling anecdotes, are there any recent polls that have dealt with this issue? Or statistical evidence concerning frequency of reports to tip hotlines, numbers of police informants etc.? Or ratings of _America’s Most Wanted_ broken down by ethnicity? (AMW’s whole premise is founded on “snitching”) :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/12 "2007-04-25T16:16:16Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] I hung out on the fringes of the biker community, too and I agree that they’re a very no-snitchy bunch of guys. But they were engaged in criminal activities, which is my point. [/QUOTE] Hey, watch how you talk about my friends! I should have been more specific. These are guys in their 30s and 40s who haven’t committed a crime in a decade or two. Some are weekend bikers who wear suits/ties during the week. The “no snitch” code persists, however. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/13 "2007-04-25T16:17:37Z")
The writers of crime dramas (esp Law & Order) definately believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/14 "2007-04-25T16:19:37Z")
This reminds me of an interview with Chuck D that I read once: [part one](http://www.stereowarning.com/2007/02/public_enemys_chuck_d_says_start_snitchin.html), [part two](http://www.stereowarning.com/2007/02/chuck_d_interview_still_black_still_strong_snitch_cop_hip_hop.html). > [@](#): > > **What about the stop snitching message and rap’s glorification of this code of silence that makes it tough for inner-city neighborhoods to get rid of crime?** > > It’s the jail mentality, which has been backed by some kind of corporate cosignature that says that the thug life is the way to go and to snitch on somebody is wrong. The bottom line is somebody is actually selling drugs in your community and decimating your community and that’s not held under the magnifying glass as being fucked up or wrong. All of a sudden, what appears to be wrong seems to be right, without any kind of judgment coming to the front. > > **Some judges say that community support is crucial for people to be able to come forward and talk to the police.** > I support snitches. If the person is cancerous to the society, then a snitch sometimes is the best solution, with an army behind him. Because the person who’s cancerous to the society, they have no army. That’s why i encourage education for people. But when we don’t encourage people to be doctors or lawyers, who’s gonna fix your people? I don’t understand the anti-intellectualism and the dumbassification of it all, when hip-hop could aspire that we have to be balanced on all ends in order to go forward as a community and as a nation. It’s a great interview. Chuck D is awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/15 "2007-04-25T16:23:40Z")
I don’t know that there’s a code of ethics involved other than old fashioned common sense- by snitching, you are provoking a response by the person you’re informing on- them, or their friends/family/criminal associates. So you’re potentially inviting retribution against yourself and your loved ones. I can see how that would be frowned upon- would you put your child’s life in danger to inform on someone that hadn’t done anything to you personally? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/16 "2007-04-25T16:27:15Z")
[QUOTE=vetbridge] Hey, watch how you talk about my friends! I should have been more specific. These are guys in their 30s and 40s who haven’t committed a crime in a decade or two. Some are weekend bikers who wear suits/ties during the week. The “no snitch” code persists, however. [/QUOTE] I was talking about _my_ crowd. It’s been over 20 years since I ran with any of them. For all I know they’ve traded in their chaps for briefcases. But when I knew them, they were dealing in guns and drugs and were rubbing shoulders with Angels and Outlaws. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/17 "2007-04-25T16:31:34Z")
[QUOTE=Stonebow] I don’t know that there’s a code of ethics involved other than old fashioned common sense- by snitching, you are provoking a response by the person you’re informing on- them, or their friends/family/criminal associates. So you’re potentially inviting retribution against yourself and your loved ones. I can see how that would be frowned upon- would you put your child’s life in danger to inform on someone that hadn’t done anything to you personally? [/QUOTE] The Cooper piece alluded to distrust of police, fear of the thugs, and a MYOB attitude. However, when there are 25 people standing around, how will they know who narc’d 'em out? Will they go after EVERYONE? ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/18 "2007-04-25T18:51:57Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] I find it hard to believe that mainstream black America abides by this code. [/QUOTE] Somebody said that it did? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/19 "2007-04-25T19:25:12Z")
[QUOTE=pizzabrat] Somebody said that it did? [/QUOTE] Per the link: > [@](#): > > GEOFFREY CANADA, PRESIDENT & CEO, HARLEM CHILDREN’S ZONE, INC.: When I was growing up, kids used to talk about snitching. It never extended, as a cultural norm, outside of the gangsters. It was not for regular citizens. It is now a cultural norm that is being preached in poor communities. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587/20 "2007-04-25T21:05:00Z")
It has always been my understanding, and I speak as a woman that was born and raised in many high crime areas, that snitching was never about “turning in the serial killer next door”. That was perfectly reasonable, and no one needed fear retaliation for that. It was a ‘gangsta’ code that basically meant, don’t try to cooperate with the cops against other gangsters, winning favors with the cops, such as shorter sentences or whatever. It was a ‘gang’ thing that didn’t apply to your average citizen. I mean, that is what I always thought. I admit, I am a bit confused now. I am a huge fan of hip-hop, but I’m not a fan of Cam’ron. I think they asked the wrong rapper to represent hip-hop on this matter. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-snitchin-is-this-as-bad-as-it-appears-to-be/401587.md?page=2)