# Stop telling us to “listen” to Trump voters. We have heard enough **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 19, 2020, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978 "2020-11-19T16:52:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/181 "2020-11-23T19:34:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, there are a few mild planks in Bidens platform. None are horrible, a couple are misguided. But it feeds into “Bidens gonna take our guns away!”. So even with a mild plank and some moderate agreement that there should be some type of gun registration and restrictions, Republicans react as if Biden is out to grab their guns. And the response to that is to simply not bring it up around Republicans. Ever. That doesn’t seem like a compromise at all. It seems more like a capitulation to absolutist demands. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/182 "2020-11-23T19:38:51Z")
And even if such a ridiculous capitulation is made, I don’t think this will cause Republicans to switch sides-It will only confirm to the Republicans that they are right, cementing their position. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/183 "2020-11-23T19:40:59Z")
I am not talking about getting republicans to switch sides- altho a lot did in this election- I am talking about not losing Dem votes. And why do you call it “capitulation”? I just said “shut up about gun control”. Dont make it a big issue. It cant do anything but lose votes. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/184 "2020-11-23T19:54:39Z")
If you are saying that the planks should be removed, that is capitulation. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/185 "2020-11-23T20:03:04Z")
I think we’re all trying to determine what that sweet spot is in listening and talking to 73M Trump voters, most of whom appear to be Republicans and right wing conservatives. So far we’ve heard that using cynical platitudes can be helpful – i.e. say things you don’t mean. Just shutting up about touchy subjects like abortion, guns, environment and social justice reform. And by “shut up”, Repubs mean, have it all stricken from the Democratic Party platform. Be nicer to Trump and his voting base. And if Dems do all that, what? Perhaps they’ll get back some of those Obama-Trump voters. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/186 "2020-11-23T20:10:58Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > And if Dems do all that, what? Perhaps they’ll get back some of those Obama-Trump voters. If we listen to some Republican voters, Democrats should make sure that they stop kidnapping children and hiding them in the basement of Pizza parlours. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/187 "2020-11-23T20:12:06Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > And if Dems do all that, what? Perhaps they’ll get back some of those Obama-Trump voters. …and lose five to ten times as many regular Democrats! Sounds like a win/win for the Republicans, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/188 "2020-11-23T20:13:20Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Just shutting up about touchy subjects like abortion, guns, environment and social justice reform Yeah, just forget about making people’s lives better. Let’s all ride this train to hell. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/189 "2020-11-23T20:18:32Z")
Stop talking about Covid all the time. And just let everyone do whatever the hell they want. What do scientists and doctors know about viruses anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/190 "2020-11-23T20:20:01Z")
Gee, do you think they would listen to Democrats if they support Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/191 "2020-11-23T20:20:45Z")
What is the proposed solution, other than “We’ll just have to continue this World War I political trench warfare?” ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/192 "2020-11-23T20:21:26Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yeah, just forget about making people’s lives better. Let’s all ride this train to hell. The next debate would be: “Should the train to Hell travel at 20 mph or 70 mph?” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/193 "2020-11-23T20:26:33Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > What is the proposed solution, other than “We’ll just have to continue this World War I political trench warfare?” When one side is literally ignoring scientific advice on a freakin’ pandemic while numbers of infected citizens grows exponentially, there is really no point in trying to “listen to them” or understand their policies of deliberately ignoring expert advice on a crisis of this magnitude. When one side is literally ignoring election results, and putting forward insane conspiracy theories and complete garbage about fraudulent votes… There is no point in trying to find out why they are doing this, or finding “common ground” with this point of view. There is no common ground between “obeying the constitution” and “burning the country to the ground” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/194 "2020-11-23T20:32:00Z")
I think a reorganization of the electoral college (to something where there is a reasonable chance the popular vote wins elections) would kill their “platform” dead and their “wishes” and outright denial of facts irrelevant. Sadly that would require the Dems to keep their shit together for more than 5 mins. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/195 "2020-11-23T20:32:48Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > What is the proposed solution, other than “We’ll just have to continue this World War I political trench warfare?” Well, it isn’t to start shooting our own allies in the back. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/196 "2020-11-23T20:38:29Z")
My question is (rhetorically I suppose) what can we do when Trump and his spokespersons say, and his 7 million supporters agree with, things that can easily be contradicted by recorded facts, and they refuse to change their minds - for example when Trump is standing in front of a screen that shows increasing covid deaths while he says that the US is “rounding the corner”. If 7 million people believe that then what are we supposed to listen to? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/197 "2020-11-23T20:38:29Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@QuickSilver](#): > > > > And if Dems do all that, what? Perhaps they’ll get back some of those Obama-Trump voters. > > If we listen to some Republican voters, Democrats should make sure that they stop kidnapping children and hiding them in the basement of Pizza parlours. Molon labe. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/198 "2020-11-23T20:47:43Z")
> [@rejemy](#): > > Thanks for writing that, it’s be best summary of the authoritarian mindset I’ve read. Appreciate the compliment. [Here is the Twitter thread](https://twitter.com/SarahTaber_bww/status/1330149184184479744) that helped crystallize some of those thoughts. The Twitter thread was more specifically focused on… well, I’ll quote the first tweet: _“as someone who grew up in a super conservative white church, I don’t think it’s possible to convey how much the entire concept of ‘you can assess a situation & decide what to do about it!’ was totally verboten.”_ And it suddenly hit me as I was thinking about my parents, I can’t persuade them of anything because they won’t even persuade themselves of anything. Their entire epistemic reality is literally the appeal to authority. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/199 "2020-11-23T20:59:31Z")
One reason for this is also because some aspects of Christianity are misused to **discourage** critical thinking outright. Take the famous Bible verse in Proverbs, “Trust in the Lord with all your heart, **lean not unto your own understanding**.” That verse doesn’t mean, “Swallow all lies without questioning.” However, it’s only a small leap away from doing exactly that. Once you have been told that “leaning on your own understanding” is a bad thing in certain situations, it’s very easy to cross over into “believe things and follow orders unquestioningly even if they are wrong.” The Bible then piles on with additional examples of faith being rewarded when someone persisted in spite of all ‘common sense’ - such as Abraham being willing to kill his son Isaac when commanded to - which, then, can easily mutate into “obey orders even when bad.” ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/200 "2020-11-23T21:12:07Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > What is the proposed solution, other than “We’ll just have to continue this World War I political trench warfare?” So first of all, people need to really grasp the real problem that leads to the dems being in this position. The GOP strategy has been to take people’s problems, blame them on cultural grievances, propose a solution that is either irrelevant or counterproductive to the real problem, and then create an arbitrary line that they say the democrats are afraid to cross because they’re such loony lefties or they’re so PC or they’re so elitist. The Dems can’t actually engage with attacks based on this because the lines are completely arbitrary. As an example, one of the popular attacks lately is on critical race theory, the 1619 project, white privilege, etc. The Dems could try to say “OK those specific labels are toxic, but we can retreat from those while finding more palatable ways to express the same concepts” but the new branding is just the next elitist lefty program for the GOP to rail against. You can’t run a campaign where all you do is publicly retreat from everything your opponent says about you. You have to impose your own framing on the debate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978.md?page=11)