# Stop telling us to “listen” to Trump voters. We have heard enough **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 19, 2020, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978 "2020-11-19T16:52:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/161 "2020-11-23T17:24:23Z")
Okay, leaving aside the absurdity of the claim that Biden is Hugo Chávez incarnate, how would one counter such a foundless attack that was undoubtedly based and targeted on social media at people who use Facebook as their source for news. I mean, are these people even reachable through some other means? And if it worked for Obama, how is Biden “more of the same”? Isn’t he “more of Obama”? And anyway, Trump has made Obama the central enemy of his administration. How would making an appeal to Obama era messaging bring in more Republicans? Are these the mythical Obama-Trump voters we keep hearing about? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/162 "2020-11-23T17:30:34Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Most of those are reasonable statements, so what’s the problem with saying them? Well, to start, they’ve all been said and Democratic party platforms support all those positions. Just not in the obviously manipulative and rhetorically vapid ways that Republicans do. So again, are you saying that Dems should resort to cynical platitudes and stop trying to raise the level of conversation to get people to think a little more deeply about their problems? ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/163 "2020-11-23T17:32:05Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > IMHO, the Democrats wouldn’t have to actually change any policies, just pay lip service to some grievances. Saying some things like “white men face discrimination,” “flyover America has been neglected,” “China is a security threat and human-rights abuser” or “we need to value unborn life” would win over many Trumpers while not having to actually change policy one bit. Democrats in fact do address the [“flyover country”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFw9osTek7Y) and [“China”](https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/3106728/mute-buttons-ready-final-donald-trump-joe-biden-debate) issues. The one thing I’ll say on rural America, is that the Democrats approach is usually to try to offer a solution to the problem to people who just want to vent and get angry. On the abortion/white men facing discrimination, they shouldn’t send those messages because everyone knows they contradict the platform. If you send both pro-life and pro-choice messages, or both pro racial justice and “all lives matter” or “wHaT aBOut WhiTe pEOplE” bothsiderism, what happens is that no one believes you. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/164 "2020-11-23T18:18:23Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > > [@DemonTree](#): > > > > Most of those are reasonable statements, so what’s the problem with saying them? > > Well, to start, they’ve all been said and Democratic party platforms support all those positions. Just not in the obviously manipulative and rhetorically vapid ways that Republicans do. So again, are you saying that Dems should resort to cynical platitudes and stop trying to raise the level of conversation to get people to think a little more deeply about their problems? I mean, perhaps the answer is “yes”. Perhaps we have to reconcile ourselves that there is no meeting some people half way. We need to learn to talk to them like they are imbeciles and tell them what they want to hear: - Yes, climate change is a hoax, but we’ve got to get off fossil fuels because we’ve run out of them. Tapped. - Yes, masks are annoying, but the NSA is watching you everywhere you go and face recognition software is completely defeated by mask wearing. Also, stay home as much as possible. They can track your cell phone movements by satellite. - Yes, All Lives Matter, but we’re starting alphabetically and “B” comes before “W”. We’re saving the best protests for last. - Sure, two guys getting married is weird, but let them get married and then divorced. See how much they like that equality. 😜 ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/165 "2020-11-23T18:20:56Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Okay, leaving aside the absurdity of the claim that Biden is Hugo Chávez incarnate, how would one counter such a foundless attack that was undoubtedly based and targeted on social media at people who use Facebook as their source for news. I mean, are these people even reachable through some other means? Did you read the article? The volunteers on the ground had ideas for how to counter them but got no support from the central party. And campaign through social media if that’s the best way to reach people. The right have been using it very successfully. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > And if it worked for Obama, how is Biden “more of the same”? Isn’t he “more of Obama”? And anyway, Trump has made Obama the central enemy of his administration. How would making an appeal to Obama era messaging bring in more Republicans? Are these the mythical Obama-Trump voters we keep hearing about? I didn’t mean promise to be more of Obama but promise to be different from the status quo. Trump didn’t promise more of Bush, he had some quite substantial differences from the traditional Republican platform. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Well, to start, they’ve all been said and Democratic party platforms support all those positions. Just not in the obviously manipulative and rhetorically vapid ways that Republicans do. So again, are you saying that Dems should resort to cynical platitudes and stop trying to raise the level of conversation to get people to think a little more deeply about their problems? > [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > On the abortion/white men facing discrimination, they shouldn’t send those messages because everyone knows they contradict the platform. If you send both pro-life and pro-choice messages, or both pro racial justice and “all lives matter” or “wHaT aBOut WhiTe pEOplE” bothsiderism, what happens is that no one believes you. Uh, does the platform support or contradict those messages? Maybe not ‘white men face discrimination’ but ‘we want people to be judged as individuals and have the same opportunities no matter their sex and race’? And not pro-life, but eg regulating late term abortions and having policies aimed at reducing the total number of abortions? But if platitudes are the way to win, then yeah, use platitudes. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/166 "2020-11-23T18:28:51Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Yes, masks are annoying, but the NSA is watching you everywhere you go and face recognition software is completely defeated by mask wearing. Also, stay home as much as possible. They can track your cell phone movements by satellite. That… might actually work. What’s the best way of starting the rumour? Leaked email from someone in the NSA? ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/167 "2020-11-23T18:29:22Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Uh, does the platform support or contradict those messages? Maybe not ‘white men face discrimination’ but ‘we want people to be judged as individuals and have the same opportunities no matter their sex and race’? And not pro-life, but eg regulating late term abortions and having policies aimed at reducing the total number of abortions? On abortion, the platform is generally pro-choice and includes support for late-term abortions to protect the life of the mother. The problem with then turning around and saying “the unborn’s life is important” is that the actual Dem platform is that a fetuses life is none of Joe Biden’s business. It’s something for a pregnant woman to consider without any rules from the government. The platitude of “treating people as individuals” is something the Democrats embrace. That was how Biden framed his talk about race - when he talked about white privilege he was specific to personal experiences including the experience of hardship Americans face regardless of race. He basically said (and I don’t remember it exactly) “yes I have white privilege because I don’t have to fear for my life when I get pulled over, but that doesn’t mean I or any individual can’t experience hardship regardless of race.” The thing they can’t entertain without being contradictory is the idea that a policy like affirmative action or investment in minority or woman owned businesses is in opposition to treating people like individuals. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/168 "2020-11-23T18:31:42Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Did you read the article? Sorry, no. What article? > [@DemonTree](#): > > I didn’t mean promise to be more of Obama but promise to be different from the status quo. Well, Obama promised change. Trump promised back to the great old days. Biden split the difference and decided that return to “normal” would be good for a change. Seems to have worked so far. We’ll see what happens next. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/169 "2020-11-23T18:32:07Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So Dems need to resort to cynical platitudes, like Republicans have done for dozens of years. It’s that simple? Well, yes. Welcome to American politics, where flash beats substance. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/170 "2020-11-23T18:37:05Z")
Oh and the Democrats support reducing the need to have an abortion by reducing unwanted pregnancies. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/171 "2020-11-23T18:48:46Z")
Wow. So this thread has gone from, “Stop telling us to “listen” to Trump voters,” to “Start telling Trump voters what they want to hear.” All righty, then. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/172 "2020-11-23T18:48:51Z")
I consider any claim that the Democrats aren’t saying the right things to the Republicans that doesn’t also include a solid example of what the right thing to say might be is a complete waste of time…and probably deliberately so. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/173 "2020-11-23T18:50:06Z")
Well, the Dems could shut up about Gun control. It doesnt work, and it only drives away voters. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/174 "2020-11-23T19:03:20Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, the Dems could shut up about Gun control. It doesnt work, and it only drives away voters. - And in exchange, the GOP can shut up about abortion. And/or properly fund welfare and family support systems. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/175 "2020-11-23T19:03:44Z")
Which prominent Democrats are talking about gun control right now, as opposed to Republicans talking about what Democrats are supposedly saying right now? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/176 "2020-11-23T19:12:10Z")
Why is it such a hot button issue when 80-90% of the country is in favor of some kind of gun control or registration? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/177 "2020-11-23T19:13:44Z")
Well, there are a few mild planks in Bidens platform. None are horrible, a couple are misguided. But it feeds into “Bidens gonna take our guns away!”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/178 "2020-11-23T19:15:26Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, there are a few mild planks in Bidens platform. Which ones? I would like to know exactly how much capitulating you are calling for. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/179 "2020-11-23T19:24:03Z")
> **[Support for Stricter U.S. Gun Laws at Lowest Level Since 2016](https://news.gallup.com/poll/325004/support-stricter-gun-laws-lowest-level-2016.aspx)** > > A majority of Americans favor stricter laws covering the sale of firearms, but today's 57% is down significantly from 64% a year ago. _The latest majority (57%) in the U.S. who call for stricter laws covering the sale of firearms marks a seven-percentage-point decline since last year. At the same time, 34% of U.S. adults prefer that gun laws be kept as they are now, while 9% would like them to be less strict._ Now, of course, it all depends on what sort of gun control is being proposed- better background checks usually gets approval. Banning handguns is something only about 20% want. Now do note- the NRA type of 'gun nut" they guys who own 20+ guns, several of which are AKs or AR15s, etc- they are lost to the Dems. Even tho trump is no friend to them, they are all totally brainwashed into thinking he is, and that any Dem will bring about a house to house gun confiscation scheme. There is no reaching that 5 Million. However, something around 40%, or 130M people own guns or live in a household where there are guns (e.g. the husband owns a deer rifle and a shotgun, but the wife owns no guns herself). About half of these are Democrats and voted for Biden. You cant afford to lose their votes. While it is true that mild measures, such as better background checks wont be a issue, crap like Beto wanting to confiscate all "assault weapons’ wont play well. I am not saying give up on mild and popular measures, but dont make a big deal about them. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978/180 "2020-11-23T19:30:47Z")
Your fingers are broken and you cant search google? 🤨 You have been asleep this whole election cycle? 🤨 Or more “just asking questions”? > **[Joe Biden's Plan to End Gun Violence | Joe Biden for President](https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/#)** > > Joe Biden's plan to end gun violence will tackle America's gun violence head on, and treat it as the public health epidemic it is. **Hold gun manufacturers accountable.** Really stupid idea- will result in every USA gun manufacturer being sued out of existence. **Get weapons of war off our streets.** This first part is OK : **Ban the manufacture and sale of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.** This next is a really bad idea: **Regulate possession of existing assault weapons under the National Firearms Act.** **Require background checks for all gun sales.** Could be a good idea, the devil is in the details, has to allow intra family transfers. **Reinstate the Obama-Biden policy to keep guns out of the hands of certain people unable to manage their affairs for mental reasons, which President Trump reversed.** This means banning guns in the hands of those who receive SocSec disability for mental issues. The ACLU is against this and so am i. and so forth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-telling-us-to-listen-to-trump-voters-we-have-heard-enough/925978.md?page=10)