# Stop the presses!! My bank did something sensible!! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 19, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-the-presses-my-bank-did-something-sensible/600175 "2011-10-19T19:35:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-the-presses-my-bank-did-something-sensible/600175/21 "2011-10-24T11:40:42Z")
> [@Lare](#): > > Are merchants set up to process these transactions yet? Doesn’t there have to be a special reader? Depends, if the reader already could read chips it doesn’t need to be changed; if it couldn’t, it does. The same numeric keyboard used to enter the transaction amount works for entering the PIN. The number _is_ stored somewhere else, **BigT** : in the bank’s servers. The information is redundant and must match everywhere. The signature feature wasn’t very secure because most people didn’t really check either the sig or the ID; the way most cashiers used it, it was like having a condom still in its package. The new method is completely mechanical - it can have computer errors (the old one could too) but it eliminates the “I haven’t even realized this young woman just gave me a card for a middle-aged dude called Joseph Smith” factor. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-the-presses-my-bank-did-something-sensible/600175/22 "2011-10-24T12:03:31Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Depends, if the reader already could read chips it doesn’t need to be changed; if it couldn’t, it does. The same numeric keyboard used to enter the transaction amount works for entering the PIN. In US POS systems the transaction amount is normally provided to the PIN pad by the POS application, not entered on the PIN pad. However, you are correct that the reader/PIN pad may not need to be changed. A number of US retailers have been installing chip-compliant PIN pads even though they do not yet use them, just so they are ready when the US credit card industry decides to enter the 21st century. However, the POS application also needs to be changed to support C&P, and these changes can be quite substantial (I used to work for a company that made these changes for retailers in both Europe and Canada). Note that here I am talking about the sort of application that significant retailers use where the PIN pad is integrated with the POS system. It does not apply where retailers use stand-beside credit card readers. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-the-presses-my-bank-did-something-sensible/600175/23 "2011-10-24T14:59:32Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I suspect you’re thinking about ATMs. This technology allows the card to be used with its PIN in stores as the entirety of the transaction, rather than swipe-and-sign. No, I’m thinking about its use in stores. Whenever I use a debit card I have to input my PIN, except for like in fast food drive thrus. I never knew this was not the norm. ---
**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-the-presses-my-bank-did-something-sensible/600175/24 "2011-10-24T15:22:17Z")
I’m curious if the new technology will do anything to prevent illicit cloning. Some ATMs are being skimmed with a device that reads the stripe and some means to allow the bad guys to see your ATM. It seems that a skimmer could be set up to read the chip in much the same manner. (If I’m wrong, please tell me why. I’d like to understand.) ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-the-presses-my-bank-did-something-sensible/600175/25 "2011-10-24T15:39:13Z")
> [@Lare](#): > > I’m curious if the new technology will do anything to prevent illicit cloning. Some ATMs are being skimmed with a device that reads the stripe and some means to allow the bad guys to see your ATM. It seems that a skimmer could be set up to read the chip in much the same manner. And it would be pretty easy to watch people enter their PIN or find out what they’ve entered by other means (dummy PIN pad, thermal imaging, etc.) Agreed with posters who have said this doesn’t seem any more secure than current credit cards. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-the-presses-my-bank-did-something-sensible/600175/26 "2011-10-24T17:17:47Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > \ My credit cards all became ‘chip cards’ about a year ago. Are us Canadians ahead of our US counterparts on something? Yes, we Canadians are ahead on this. My Bank of Montreal MC has been a chip card for about 3 years now. And more and more merchants now use it that way and there is no signature, only a pin. At least one restaurant had a button to authorize an 18% tip (although you could still choose to choose your own). ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-the-presses-my-bank-did-something-sensible/600175/27 "2011-10-24T17:19:55Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Yes, we Canadians are ahead on this. Yet if it’s not a _better_ system (which several posters have called into question), then you’re not “ahead”, you’re just doing it differently. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-the-presses-my-bank-did-something-sensible/600175/28 "2011-10-24T18:44:52Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Yet if it’s not a _better_ system (which several posters have called into question), then you’re not “ahead”, you’re just doing it differently. I only see conjecture from posters who question whether it is more secure - nobody with expertise has yet weighed in saying that C&P is not more secure. C&P replaces signatures (which are often not checked) with PINs. The cards have chips that cannot be cloned. Skimming will no longer produce valid cards. Credit cards are no longer taken away from the customer, which commonly happens in US restaurants. In Europe, the payment device is brought to the table. The net effect has been a reduction in fraud. For example, according to the Wikipedia [article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_and_PIN): > [@](#): > > France has cut card fraud by more than 80%. ---
**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-the-presses-my-bank-did-something-sensible/600175/29 "2011-10-24T19:14:06Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > The cards have chips that cannot be cloned. Skimming will no longer produce valid cards. Why is this? What prevents someone from making a way to do it? ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-the-presses-my-bank-did-something-sensible/600175/30 "2011-10-24T19:36:06Z")
I don’t know why it’s more secure so but this [article](http://blog.unibulmerchantservices.com/mag-stripe-credit-cards-vs-smart-cards/) gives some details on the scope of the reduction in fraud. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-the-presses-my-bank-did-something-sensible/600175.md?page=1)