# Stop this meme: Can we finally stop hearing that liberals are condescending? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916 "2004-11-09T22:56:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/21 "2004-11-10T02:35:55Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The “meme” is that much of the left (pundits and politicians) mock the electorate. Sure this happens on the right, too, but it doesn’t seem to be nearly as widespread. There’s a big differnce between conservative pundits mocking liberal pundits or liberal politicians (or liberal hollywood types), and liberal pundits mocking the voters themselves. > > And if the voters get a sense that the pundits are mocking them, it rubs off on the politicians that the pundits support. > > Democratic presidential spouses seem to add to this “meme”. Note the HRC “I’m not some stand-by-my man, cookie baking woman…” (paraphrased) or the comments THK made about Laura Bush as well as her comments about the “stupid people” who don’t support Kerry’s healthcare plan. I think these points are severely muddled by the fact that there exists an entire industry devoted to trying to convince people that the left hates ordinary Americans. People’s judgements on these issues aren’t necessarily in tune with the reality of what the other side is actually like, and in part that’s not a mistake: it’s an active political and foxertainment strategy for the right. As Bob Somerby points out, you often get right-wing voters on talk radio saying that the Democrats this year denigrated their faith, hate God, etc. etc. etc. But they never name names: in most cases, because they can’t think of a single example for what they feel must be true. In fact, it seems more to work the other way around: they assume that it must be so, because their faith is what they see as defining them as the good guys against the Demcratic bad guys. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/22 "2004-11-10T02:40:19Z")
By the way, I don’t mean to imply that one side has a monopoly on the truth and the other side has a monopoly on lies, deceptions, and half-truths. But, on certain basic issues like Iraq (& evidence of its pre-war WMD, links to Al Qaeda, relationship to the 9/11 attacks, etc.), that does seem to be at least largely the case. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/23 "2004-11-10T03:26:31Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > I think these points are severely muddled by the fact that there exists an entire industry devoted to trying to convince people that the left hates ordinary Americans. People’s judgements on these issues aren’t necessarily in tune with the reality of what the other side is actually like, and in part that’s not a mistake: it’s an active political and foxertainment strategy for the right. Yeah, I forgot that when the board of directors of The Right, Inc. meets to set policy, this is always on the top of the list. One might just as reasonably (or unreasonably) bemoan the fact that the “leftertainment” industry always protrays businessmen as evil spoilers of the environement or soulless exploiters of the poor in movies and television. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/24 "2004-11-10T03:41:17Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Yeah, I forgot that when the board of directors of The Right, Inc. meets to set policy, this is always on the top of the list. One might just as reasonably (or unreasonably) bemoan the fact that the “leftertainment” industry always protrays businessmen as evil spoilers of the environement or soulless exploiters of the poor in movies and television. Unfortunately, they sometimes are. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/25 "2004-11-10T03:47:52Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Unfortunately, they sometimes are. They almost \*\*always \*\*are. The point is, one needn’t postulate a coordinated effort to explain it. And that goes for the other side as well. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/26 "2004-11-10T03:50:36Z")
When I said “they almost always are”, I meant they were almost always portrayed that way by the media, not that they almost always are IRL. I misunderstood your post, **Loopydude**. I guess you meant they sometimes are IRL. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/27 "2004-11-10T03:59:39Z")
Ehhh…IRL? 😕 Forgive me, I ain’t that bright when it comes net acronymns. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/28 "2004-11-10T05:16:37Z")
“In Real Life” i.e. away from the internet. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/29 "2004-11-10T05:25:43Z")
If I have come off as condescending then I apologize, for I have failed. I was TRYING to be **insulting.** ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/30 "2004-11-10T05:40:48Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > If I have come off as condescending then I apologize, for I have failed. I was TRYING to be **insulting.** Clarification understood by 49,246; 55,949,407 (less those nutty liberals in the 49,246) to go…oh, wait. That assumes all the SDMB members read your message. Nevermind… ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/31 "2004-11-10T06:22:50Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The “meme” is that much of the left (pundits and politicians) mock the electorate. Sure this happens on the right, too, but it doesn’t seem to be nearly as widespread. There’s a big differnce between conservative pundits mocking liberal pundits or liberal politicians (or liberal hollywood types), and liberal pundits mocking the voters themselves. Bingo. Rush Limbaugh is the perfect example of this; he will hammer “the liberals,” and then add the disclaimer that he’s not talking about “the average Democrat.” _That_ is what the dems need to steal. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/32 "2004-11-10T06:30:01Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Yeah, I forgot that when the board of directors of The Right, Inc. meets to set policy, this is always on the top of the list. Case in point: an honest and pretty much uncontroversial point about partisan exploitation is made, and it’s immediately and dishonestly twisted into a hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/33 "2004-11-10T06:36:09Z")
Stop memes? It’s survival of the fittest, evolution in action. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/34 "2004-11-10T13:31:36Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The “meme” is that much of the left (pundits and politicians) mock the electorate. Sure this happens on the right, too, but it doesn’t seem to be nearly as widespread. There’s a big differnce between conservative pundits mocking liberal pundits or liberal politicians (or liberal hollywood types), and liberal pundits mocking the voters themselves. This is absolutely correct. The quotes that Polerius are using criticize specific Liberal ideologies or extreme groups. It mocks or criticize specific individuals or spokespeople. This is fine. It is perfectly ok to attack the symbols of the oppositions idealology. Liberals, however, attack the electorate. Red States are “stupid” or “backward” or “redneck”. People who voted for Bush or Republicans are “racist/homophobe” or “brainwashed”. The mere fact that Democrats use celebrities to the extent they do is an insult. Are we simple voters supposed to be swayed by the mere sight of Ben Affleck or Bruce Springsteen? What should we care about the oppinions of Cameron Diaz? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/35 "2004-11-10T13:42:10Z")
> [@Bruce\_Daddy](#): > > No, I’m sorry, I don’t. The first implies that I am so stupid/dumb that I blindly concur with “sound bites” as opposed to making my own rational decisions. Forgive me if I don’t depend on the left to save me from my own gullibility. > > I predict this thread will quickly prove a point the OP did not intend. Yet it remains true. Bush misled voters. Do you mean any truth that can be misperceived as an insult cannot be spoken? ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/36 "2004-11-10T14:08:42Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Yet it remains true. Bush misled voters. Do you mean any truth that can be misperceived as an insult cannot be spoken? Truth? You say ‘misled’ as if were an undeniable fact. There are plenty of threads around here debating whether or not Bush misled (read: lied) to the people, this thread is not deserving of such a hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/37 "2004-11-10T17:11:29Z")
How can you be condescending to people who don’t read papers or watch any worthwhile news ? Your giving them too much credit that they might even have perceived the so called “liberal atitude”. (which might be true or not…) People who got about 10 mins of news before the election and maybe watched a program or two in order to “feel” more informed on election issues. Maybe… just maybe watched one debate… or not. So lets be realistic… these people gobbled up the GOP soundbites that were custom made for their brains and mentality… while Kerry was trying to explain an alternative in a long winded fashion. In doubt they prefered not to have change… its kind of autistic way of acting… but thats how they acted. People on the internet have way much too information … cannot imagine there are people who have very little notion of what is happening in politics. They know about terrorism and jobs… if they haven’t lost their jobs they vote Bush. Simple as that… or Bush is more likeable. Elections aren’t about issues anymore… its a popularity contest. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/38 "2004-11-10T18:27:38Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > Case in point: an honest and pretty much uncontroversial point about partisan exploitation is made, and it’s immediately and dishonestly twisted into a hyperbole. Please… Your opinion does not constitute an “uncotroversial point”. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/39 "2004-11-10T19:14:28Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > The sample quotes below, from National Review, which I think is considered a respected conservative magazine, should lay to rest all the claims that “liberals” are “condescending and arrogant and think they know best”. I don’t particularly care about that claim. It does bug me when they tack on “and that’s why they lost the election.” Still, the best way to rebut assertions about voter’s motives is with [actual data on voters motives](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31043-2004Nov6.html). > [@](#): > > Many religious conservatives have asserted that Bush owes his victory to values voters. That is partially true; more voters (22 percent) said their top issue was moral values than any other single issue, and an anti-gay-marriage ballot initiative in Ohio helped Bush win that crucial state. But, according to exit polls, moral issues ranked below national security issues (34 percent when terrorism and Iraq were taken together) and economic issues (25 percent when combined with taxes). Don’t see “turned off by liberal shrillness” or “to get back at those condescending liberals” in that list anywhere. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916/40 "2004-11-10T20:12:55Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The “meme” is that much of the left (pundits and politicians) mock the electorate. Sure this happens on the right, too, but it doesn’t seem to be nearly as widespread. Do you have a cite for the “doesn’t seem to be nearly as widespread” claim? > [@](#): > > There’s a big differnce between conservative pundits mocking liberal pundits or liberal politicians (or liberal hollywood types), and liberal pundits mocking the voters themselves. Sorry for the expression, but I think this is horseshit. Do you have proof that conservative pundits mock liberal pundits _only_, and not \*all \* liberals? In the quote in the OP > [@](#): > > Maher would get few applause lines from his audience of sophisticated yokels …and of course the audience was applauding like so many toy monkeys. I don’t think “monkeys” refers to liberal pundits, but to the entire audience. Also, the fact that Republicans have managed to make “liberal” into a derisive epithet speaks volumes, because it now means that many conservatives are being condesceding \*every single time \* they describe someone as “liberal”. I think that many conservatives have a _very_ low opinion of liberals (they’re nuts, naive, traitors, “drink too much Kool Aid”, etc), and they express it often. So, they have a very low opinion of a large percentage of the population, even though it may not be geographically based. But there is also geographically-based condescention in the way “Massachusetts liberals”, for example, is used. So, I think that your claim that conservatives most often mock liberal pundits only, and not the large percentage of the population that is liberal, is horribly false. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-this-meme-can-we-finally-stop-hearing-that-liberals-are-condescending/273916.md?page=3)