# Stop using Social Security numbers for everything **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919 "2015-02-05T20:01:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/1 "2015-02-05T20:01:14Z")
Data breaches happen every few months. Social Security numbers are one of the most common things stolen. Unless it is specifically required by law companies need to find other identifiers. My college had its own ID number system, why can’t the insurance companies do that? I don’t want some a-hole racking up bills that are going to be sent to me, just because a lazy programmer can’t be bothered to come up with their own way of numbering accounts. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/2 "2015-02-05T20:27:21Z")
So are you proposing a federal ID card, then? Or are you just proposing that I have to provide physical documentation of identity and citizenship independently to every single business or agency I might have a need to transact business with? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/3 "2015-02-05T20:34:16Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Data breaches happen every few months. Social Security numbers are one of the most common things stolen. Unless it is specifically required by law companies need to find other identifiers. My college had its own ID number system, why can’t the insurance companies do that? I don’t want some a-hole racking up bills that are going to be sent to me, just because a lazy programmer can’t be bothered to come up with their own way of numbering accounts. Insurance companies DO use their own numbering systems to identify you. The issue isn’t laziness, but how do you tie all of the different numbers from all of the different companies together and tie them to you? Unless you are proposing some other centrally issued identification number how does it tie to you from company to company, from government agency (local, state, federal) to agency? And if you do issue a standardized number, well, you are back to the same issue. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/4 "2015-02-05T20:43:08Z")
Yea, I think the problem is more some companies treating SS as some sort of secret password rather than just as a unique identifier. It’s extremely useful as the latter (and if it didn’t exist, something else would probably be used for the same purpose), but because its used so frequently for that, its kinda dumb to expect it to be secure. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/5 "2015-02-05T20:46:47Z")
Right, if someone steals my SSN and uses that to get a credit card in my name, the problem isn’t the SSN. The problem is that the credit card company considers the SSN enough to give the person a card. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/6 "2015-02-05T20:55:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Right, if someone steals my SSN and uses that to get a credit card in my name, the problem isn’t the SSN. The problem is that the credit card company considers the SSN enough to give the person a card. Do they still issue live credit cards with nothing more than a SSN? That’s only one piece of info I generally have to provide (though if I recall my last activation I had to use the phone associated with my account and SSN to activate, which is pretty stupid). I agree that they should have more security than that today. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/7 "2015-02-05T21:04:14Z")
The most enraging thing is when I’m on the phone with some company, and to identify myself they ask me to give them the last 4 digits of my SSN as if it was some sort of secret information that could only be known by me. Your SSN is no more secret than your address or phone number. It is a unique identifier, and as such can’t be secret. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/8 "2015-02-05T21:16:00Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Insurance companies DO use their own numbering systems to identify you. The issue isn’t laziness, but how do you tie all of the different numbers from all of the different companies together and tie them to you? Unless you are proposing some other centrally issued identification number how does it tie to you from company to company, from government agency (local, state, federal) to agency? And if you do issue a standardized number, well, you are back to the same issue. You don’t tie them together. That way hackers can only take one account instead of using the information to mess up anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/9 "2015-02-05T21:20:45Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > You don’t tie them together. That way hackers can only take one account instead of using the information to mess up anything else. Alright, so when you open a new account with a company you’ve never done business with before, how do you prove to them that you are you? ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/10 "2015-02-05T21:21:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So are you proposing a federal ID card, then? > > Or are you just proposing that I have to provide physical documentation of identity and citizenship independently to every single business or agency I might have a need to transact business with? In Britain we have a **[National Insurance Number](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Insurance_number)**, but it’s solely used for work, tax, health, and benefits: viz: government. I would be very suspicious if any bank, business or person wanted to know it. Obviously we’ve seen off attempts to force ID cards \* or numbers, so yes we prove our identity to non-government people though other means. A credit or debit card or an old utility bill ( which we might have nicked ) usually does the trick. - I can’t remember the last time anyone wanted to see ID. So the last few times they tried to introduce it were basically an excuse for a massive financial boondoggle for the agencies who would have profited from running it. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/11 "2015-02-05T21:45:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Alright, so when you open a new account with a company you’ve never done business with before, how do you prove to them that you are you? That does not seems to stop some businesses from opening accounts with stolen identities. Perhaps there is a need to weaken the power of the SSN, such that starting business transactions or opening accounts requires a lot more information. Even with that, the credit reporting agencies are probably most in control over the damage that could be caused by identify theft. What can THEY do to ease the burden on identify theft victims? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/12 "2015-02-05T21:51:30Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > That does not seems to stop some businesses from opening accounts with stolen identities. Perhaps there is a need to weaken the power of the SSN, such that starting business transactions or opening accounts requires a lot more information. Most of the times that I’ve applied for credit online, the site has generated a multiple-choice quiz asking me to correctly identify street addresses I’ve lived at, banks I’ve had accounts with, etc. One assumes it would be much more difficult for an aspiring identity thief to know what street I lived on in the '90s than it would be for them to simply glean my SSN. Any company that relies on knowing an SSN alone as the basis for opening a line of credit is just being negligent, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/13 "2015-02-05T21:53:35Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > You don’t tie them together. That way hackers can only take one account instead of using the information to mess up anything else. However, so many things NEED to be tied together. For example, anything affecting your taxes (which, these days, can include your insurance premiums) has to be able to be tied to your IRS account. The IRS now uses your social security number, but if they used something else, what would change? ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/14 "2015-02-05T21:56:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Any company that relies on knowing an SSN alone as the basis for opening a line of credit is just being negligent, IMO. I concur. Perhaps it should also be criminal. I am not sure if there are laws any place around this. I am sure it would be fought by said companies on the basis of making it harder to do business with legitimate customers. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/15 "2015-02-05T22:07:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Alright, so when you open a new account with a company you’ve never done business with before, how do you prove to them that you are you? Why should I have to? I open an account with them, they give me a unique number, I use that number to conduct business with them for the duration of our relationship. What I call myself is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/16 "2015-02-05T22:13:07Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Why should I have to? I open an account with them, they give me a unique number, I use that number to conduct business with them for the duration of our relationship. What I call myself is irrelevant. Let’s say I go to Well Fargo and open an account with my name, DrCube. I take out a big loan, and dont bother to pay it back. Now the bank will never do business with DrCube again. They’ll also probably tell other banks to steer clear of DrCube. “Oh, but that was not me!”, you say. Well, what other information would you share to prove you are you? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/17 "2015-02-05T22:13:18Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Why should I have to? I open an account with them, they give me a unique number, I use that number to conduct business with them for the duration of our relationship. What I call myself is irrelevant. You don’t think the business has any need to know _who_ they’re doing business with? ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/18 "2015-02-05T22:56:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Most of the times that I’ve applied for credit online, the site has generated a multiple-choice quiz asking me to correctly identify street addresses I’ve lived at, banks I’ve had accounts with, etc. One assumes it would be much more difficult for an aspiring identity thief to know what street I lived on in the '90s than it would be for them to simply glean my SSN. > . How do they know the correct answers to these questions ? And I couldn’t tell you most of the addresses I’ve lived, anyway. > [@Smapti](#): > > You don’t think the business has any need to know _who_ they’re doing business with? Depends on whether you are paying cash or not. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/19 "2015-02-06T00:01:37Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > How do they know the correct answers to these questions ? By looking at your credit report. > [@Claverhouse](#): > > And I couldn’t tell you most of the addresses I’ve lived, anyway. But you can probably recognize which addresses look familiar and which ones don’t. > [@Claverhouse](#): > > Depends on whether you are paying cash or not. Much business activity that can be transacted in cash is still linked to other records. For example, you may be able to pay your auto insurance premium in cash, but they still want to check your credit score and report their experience to the various claims clearinghouses. (Same thing applies to apartment rental, BTW.) Pretty much any kind of financial transaction (banking, stocks and bonds, and so forth) has the potential for tax reporting obligations, while with medical services they want to connect to insurance records and to keep consistent track of who received which services over a long period of time. (Are you the same person who had an appendectomy last year? or the same as filled a prescription for oxycodone last month? On the other hand, if you just want to go to the auto parts store and buy some motor oil and windshield wipers, they’re not going to keep track of cash customers, and don’t care about your SSN. If they do need or want to keep track of you (e.g., for warranty purposes), they can use a phone number or some other identifier because the parts house doesn’t link to other businesses, and no SSN is necessary or requested. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919/20 "2015-02-06T02:18:29Z")
I’m looking at my Social Security card, issued in 1948. It very clearly says: “Not to be used for identification.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stop-using-social-security-numbers-for-everything/711919.md?page=2)