# Stopped at a red light in a Manual transmission do you... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 12, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109 "2011-04-12T16:43:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/61 "2011-04-13T10:15:22Z")
Put the car in neutral, but if the intersection truly is flat there is no need to step on the brake. If it’s slightly sloped then neutral and feet on the brake and clutch, pressure only on the brake. If it’s on a very strong slope, then the gear goes counterslope same as to park (upslope in first, downslope in reverse) and the feet are stepping on brake and clutch. I’m talking about slopes that you need to be in first to climb, the kind of spot where your curses of whomever put up that stop sign/traffic light and all their ancestry makes the sky red. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/62 "2011-04-13T15:39:20Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Depends how long I’m going to be sitting there. If it’s a quick light, I’ll keep the car in first with the clutch in; if it generally takes a while for the light to cycle, I’ll put it in neutral until it’s my turn to go. That, and how many people are in front of me. If I’m the tenth car back from the light, I know I’ll have plenty of time to put it in gear after the light changes, so I’ll leave it in neutral. But if I’m first in line, I’ll have it in first with the clutch in, unless I know there’s still a lot of time before the light changes. ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_Doubt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Angel\_of\_Doubt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_Doubt)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/63 "2011-04-13T15:53:59Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Car in first, clutch in, foot on brake is how I do it. Same here. I’ve never had to replace or repair anypart of the clutch assembly (knock on wood) since getting my vehicle in 2000. The only mechanical lore I know for sure about is not to “ride the clutch,” which I’m diligent about. Maybe I should keep the clutch pedal out. It has been shifting hard, meaning when I shift say from 2nd to 3rd it “whams” sometimes. But this doesn’t always happen and I attribute it to my tendency to shift too early. Is this a sign of something wearing out? ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/64 "2011-04-13T16:09:39Z")
I pop the car into neural, as I get close to the red light, but don’t depress the clutch when moving the shifter to neutral. I wait to depress clutch and engage 1st (or 2nd) as long as possible. . ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/65 "2011-04-13T16:30:59Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > for the fear of bearing wearing crowd. > Back in the day British cars used a carbon throwout bearing. No balls, no rollers, just a round cylinder of carbon mounted in a cast iron cradle that would push forward against a smooth surface on the clutch cover. These bearings actually did wear, and you could wear out the throwout bearing before the clutch. [Here](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ukmgimages.red2.co.uk/C736C105-E730-4A24-8479-3B59DEC28774.jpg&imgrefurl=http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/starting-clutch-in-or-out/20368/page2/&usg=__bNYRbUT-cgPb41XVVikBKbfxMmQ=&h=322&w=375&sz=24&hl=en&start=96&zoom=1&tbnid=6AENzGKPvnI4MM:&tbnh=142&tbnw=165&ei=UxelTZrJC4WosQPy5bz7DA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmg%2Bclutch%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1680%26bih%3D776%26tbm%3Disch0%2C1710&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=607&vpy=349&dur=4965&hovh=208&hovw=242&tx=118&ty=153&oei=BRelTf6hMIbSsAO74qz5DA&page=4&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:96&biw=1680&bih=776) is what one looks like Although I got just about 100K on my last MG clutch, which was great mileage when you consider how I drove that car (Flat out everywhere) > Anyway I have not seen a TO bearing like one of those in a new car anywhere in almost 30 years. > The throwout bearings used now are either sealed ball bearings or maybe a roller bearing. I have not ever seen this type of bearing fail. Ever. > FTR my son drives a stick shift car. He drives like I do, if the light does not look to be a long one, leave it in first with your foot down on the clutch. He bought his current Volvo with 96,000 miles on the clock, and it now has over 200K, all on the original clutch. At this point we are both in the “how upset could I be if something failed after 200K camp?” The clutch on this car must be made out of kryptonite, or unobtainum as I am beginning to wonder if it will ever fail. Maybe the parts have indeed improved in 30 years but I wore out both a clutch and a throwout bearing in a Pinto and this often occurred in sports cars of the day as well. I don’t remember sleeve bearings but then it was, as you say, 30 years ago. Back then, you could fry a new clutch in a week with a hi performance engine on the track. Rick is a mechanic for those who don’t know so he is giving current and real-world experience in parts wear. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/66 "2011-04-13T17:00:38Z")
When stopped I keep it in first gear with the clutch and brake down. I like it that way so I can take off right away without having to shift into first. My last two manual transmission cars, a 1998 Ford Contour and 1990 Mustang GT I drove to 185,000 and 150,000 miles respectively with no transmission work at all. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/67 "2011-04-13T17:51:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Maybe the parts have indeed improved in 30 years but I wore out both a clutch and a throwout bearing in a Pinto and this often occurred in sports cars of the day as well. I don’t remember sleeve bearings but then it was, as you say, 30 years ago. Back then, you could fry a new clutch in a week with a hi performance engine on the track. > > Rick is a mechanic for those who don’t know so he is giving current and real-world experience in parts wear. I had an RX-7 with a needle-bearing based thrust bearing. They tend to fail when the clutch fails (or causes the failure, I forget) the replacement kit included it…when the mechanic pulled the clutch, all the needle bearings fell out all over the floor ETA: I think it’s like changing the water pump when you do a Timing Belt (or vice versa), the failure of one usually necessitates replacing the other, while you’re in there. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/68 "2011-04-13T18:05:09Z")
> [@Angel\_of\_Doubt](#): > > Same here. I’ve never had to replace or repair anypart of the clutch assembly (knock on wood) since getting my vehicle in 2000. The only mechanical lore I know for sure about is not to “ride the clutch,” which I’m diligent about. Maybe I should keep the clutch pedal out. It has been shifting hard, meaning when I shift say from 2nd to 3rd it “whams” sometimes. But this doesn’t always happen and I attribute it to my tendency to shift too early. Is this a sign of something wearing out? I think you’re maybe not finessing your shift as much as you could be. For those of you who think an average light is minutes long, I challenge you to time them - I think you’ll find that the longest light you sit at in your daily commute might be a minute, minute and a half. Just sitting, staring at a light makes them seem to take an awful lot longer than they actually take. 🙂 ETA: I should say, the length of time of the light cycle, not how long you actually sit there. ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/69 "2011-04-13T19:19:27Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think you’re maybe not finessing your shift as much as you could be. > > For those of you who think an average light is minutes long, I challenge you to time them - I think you’ll find that the longest light you sit at in your daily commute might be a minute, minute and a half. Just sitting, staring at a light makes them seem to take an awful lot longer than they actually take. 🙂 > > ETA: I should say, the length of time of the light cycle, not how long you actually sit there. Yeah speak for yourself 😉 I wait until I like the color of green or I feel like going. The man isn’t going to keep me at that light! But I agree overall with you, but there are a couple lights I know that it takes 2-3 cycles to get through, but those are turning lanes. But when you are there just sitting there it seems like time has been suspended. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/70 "2011-04-13T19:55:35Z")
I also do the british way of handbraking – I hadn’t realised American traffic lights don’t have red+amber before green (?), no wonder people have to honk to get people to move. In fact, I _always_ put the handbrake on because (a) I don’t have to keep my foot on the brake to avoid rolling (b) I can rest my foot © not dazzle drivers behind me (d) that’s how I was taught (e) I don’t know enough about which wears out faster to make a decision on that basis. My friend has a BMW which tuns the engine \off\ whenever you’re stationary, which I’d heard as reasonable advice, but hadn’t believed until I saw that. But I infer it’s sensible to do so (the only downside being if it’s a hassle to start it again, which this obviates). If you’re turning the engine off, I assume that means putting the handbrake on. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/71 "2011-04-13T20:19:53Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > I had an RX-7 with a needle-bearing based thrust bearing. They tend to fail when the clutch fails (or causes the failure, I forget) the replacement kit included it…when the mechanic pulled the clutch, all the needle bearings fell out all over the floor > > ETA: I think it’s like changing the water pump when you do a Timing Belt (or vice versa), the failure of one usually necessitates replacing the other, while you’re in there. OMG, I was going to say the exact same thing about water pumps and timing belts. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/72 "2011-04-13T20:28:44Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Never seen one either, but apparently there are some. From [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=545941): > (Of course, you’d think there’d be at least a few Mercedes sold in Europe too.) Jeeps (at least older CJ’s that is) use that method as well. I had one and never had to use the parking brake method. Seeing how Jeeps are used offroad and often have steep hills to negotiate, IMHO, it’s just a matter of REALLY knowing your sweet spot and get to it quickly. Hill starts never bothered me, and I did some serious jeeping. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/73 "2011-04-13T20:38:44Z")
Neutral. Heck, I shift it into neutral well before I even stop. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/74 "2011-04-13T21:25:39Z")
> [@Hakuna Matata](#): > > If it is only going to be for a couple of minutes then I leave it in first. > > > [@ZenBeam](#): > > > > If by “minutes” you mean “seconds”, then yes\*. > > > > - If you really mean “minutes”, where the heck do you drive? > > > > > [@Hakuna\_Matata](#): > > > > > > Not sure what you are asking to be honest. You roll up to a light, the light has just went from green to red, so you know it will be a couple minutes before it is green again. Thus my comments about a few minutes. Or you roll up and it appears the light has been red for awhile so you figure it will be turning to green in a few seconds. Or am I missing something? > > > > > > But yes once the light changes, yes you do shift and go in seconds, that I do agree with. But I don’t think I ever said any different. I don’t have any lights near me that take more than a couple minutes to cycle. I can think of one that _might_ be red for _approaching_ two minutes. I’ve never been anywhere that I’d refer to a stop light being red for “only” a couple of minutes. Any light that could be red for two minutes or more would be a looong light. Hence, wondering where you’re from. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/75 "2011-04-13T21:30:56Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > I don’t know what cave I’ve been hiding in, but I’ve never seen a stick-shift with a foot-operated parking brake. Seems like it would be an awfully tight fit so that it doesn’t interfere with the clutch. My Mercedes c230 has just such a parking brake. Also, my Dodge Dakota did as well. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/76 "2011-04-13T21:33:23Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Neutral. Heck, I shift it into neutral well before I even stop. Me too. I’m the coasting king. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/77 "2011-04-13T21:46:31Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Depends how long I’m going to be sitting there. If it’s a quick light, I’ll keep the car in first with the clutch in; if it generally takes a while for the light to cycle, I’ll put it in neutral until it’s my turn to go. This is my preference also. ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/78 "2011-04-13T23:31:11Z")
I put in other as well. I admit, yep I’m lazy, so normally leave it in first, with the foot brake holding me there. However, if I know it will be a short light, and if I’m on an incline I’ll ride the clutch. [Yes Yes very naughty I know 😃] I’ve never had any problems with any bearings in any of the manual cars I 've had. Curiosty question - If I understand correctly from peoples comments, in the States if you are on an incline at the lights, you don’t apply the park brake? So when you go to start, do you just quickly release the brake and move your foot to the accelerator? :dubious: Am I interpreting this correctly? Seems a recipe for disaster to me. What if it is a reasonably steep hill? I saw one poster who flat out said they can’t do a parkbrake hill start? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Stilettos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/fbc32d/32.png) [@Red\_Stilettos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Stilettos)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/79 "2011-04-14T00:02:08Z")
> [@GreedySmurf](#): > > Curiosty question - If I understand correctly from peoples comments, in the States if you are on an incline at the lights, you don’t apply the park brake? > > So when you go to start, do you just quickly release the brake and move your foot to the accelerator? :dubious: Am I interpreting this correctly? Yep. I let out the clutch until I can feel it beginning to engage, then quickly hit the gas. You may roll a bit, but unless the person behind you is ridiculously close, it’s not a problem. Getting used to that is the scariest part of learning to drive a stick and the reason that many of my friends won’t drive one. I find it just as strange that you are trying to drive with the parking brake engaged. Doesn’t that kill the parking brake? ---
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/80 "2011-04-14T00:12:24Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > To each his own I guess, but is it really that hard to clutch with the left foot & brake with the right; then when it’s time to go you find your friction point and move the right foot to the gas? I can’t recall losing more than a couple inches on really steep hills before taking off. This. A hand brake? Really? If you need a hand brake to get going forward without moving backward, maybe you should be driving an automatic. The only time I tried this was when my buddy was teaching me to drive a stick & we were on a hill. Stalled it about 4 times before we got going. To answer the OP, I’m usually in neutral when I come to a stop. I see no reason to keep it in a gear as I slow down. My engine doesn’t provide enough breaking power to make downshifting worth it, and if I need to shift into a gear to go again it takes less than a second. So as I’m waiting for the light, I’ll leave it in neutral with the brake on. If I see the cross lights changing I’ll shift into 1st in anticipation of the green, but if not I’ll just shift and go when it turns green. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109.md?page=5)