# Stopped at a red light in a Manual transmission do you... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 12, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109 "2011-04-12T16:43:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/81 "2011-04-14T00:41:26Z")
I don’t use a parking brake on hilly starts, and have no problem with rollback. It was a much bigger problem when I was first driving stick, but at this point, I ease my foot off the clutch and onto the gas and just teeter there without moving either way on a hill until it’s time to go if I want to. Which probably isn’t good for the car, either, but you gotta entertain yourself sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/82 "2011-04-14T00:51:46Z")
> [@GreedySmurf](#): > > Curiosty question - If I understand correctly from peoples comments, in the States if you are on an incline at the lights, you don’t apply the park brake? > So when you go to start, do you just quickly release the brake and move your foot to the accelerator? :dubious: Am I interpreting this correctly? Seems a recipe for disaster to me. What if it is a reasonably steep hill? I saw one poster who flat out said they can’t do a parkbrake hill start? 😕 Pretty much. When I drove a stick, I almost never used the parking brake when stopped on a hill. I know I did once, on a steep hill in San Francisco, but even then, it was because I wanted to try it. (It wasn’t hard to do, but I’d been driving a stick for ten or fifteen years.) ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/83 "2011-04-14T01:36:15Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > I don’t have any lights near me that take more than a couple minutes to cycle. I can think of one that _might_ be red for _approaching_ two minutes. I’ve never been anywhere that I’d refer to a stop light being red for “only” a couple of minutes. Any light that could be red for two minutes or more would be a looong light. > > Hence, wondering where you’re from. ahh..I see what you are saying now. I doubt they are more then a minute or two. Just seems way longer–call it poetic license in my post! I am near Seattle for what it is worth. Yes I would agree it is at most 60-90 seconds but I swear when I am in a hurry it is like 10 minutes! ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/84 "2011-04-14T02:33:12Z")
> [@GreedySmurf](#): > > Curiosty question - If I understand correctly from peoples comments, in the States if you are on an incline at the lights, you don’t apply the park brake? Honestly, when I do use the parking brake on a hill, I feel kind of wussy. In my mind, it’s something that people who can’t actually drive a stick do. Part of learning how to drive a stick (for me) was stopping on steep hills and learning how to start back up without using the parking brake. There are days/times/road conditions where I’ll use the parking brake, but I’m not happy with myself when I do it. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/85 "2011-04-14T05:31:32Z")
My husband’s Subaru won’t roll back when taking off on an incline. I don’t know what this feature is called. He’s becoming spoiled. ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/86 "2011-04-14T06:17:11Z")
Other: because it’s situational. Basically the same as **HM** The only time I’ve ever burned out a clutch is when I had a shitty old car I couldn’t afford to get a starter on for months, so I push-started it. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/87 "2011-04-14T12:44:50Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Depends how long I’m going to be sitting there. If it’s a quick light, I’ll keep the car in first with the clutch in; if it generally takes a while for the light to cycle, I’ll put it in neutral until it’s my turn to go. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/88 "2011-04-14T13:03:22Z")
In a car- keep it in gear, feet on clutch and brake. If it’s going to be a long light or wait, I put it in neutral just to keep my feet from cramping. On a motorcycle- definitely keep it in gear, just in case I need to get out of the way of something. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/89 "2011-04-14T13:27:43Z")
Keep it in gear. I ride a motorcycle so it’s not worth shifting unless you just caught the light and are going to be there for a few minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Clanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@Small\_Clanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Clanger)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/90 "2011-04-14T16:35:54Z")
In a manual? I have actually forgotten, haven’t driven one for 10+ years. That said I learned in a manual and as other Brits have posted the driving test\* here requires you to put it in neutral with the handbrake on, and everyone learns the handbrake style ‘hill start’ so it simply becomes _the_ way you start moving, hill or no hill. Makes total sense at lights since the most likely incident by far is being back-ended and in neutral with the handbrake on means 1) The back wheels are locked so you’re not going to roll forward 2) the engine isn’t engaged to _drive you into what’s in front_ if your left foot slips. My Merc’ has a foot-on hand-off parking brake so in the manual version (if it exists) you wouldn’t need three feet for a ‘hill start’. _You can take an ‘automatic’ test but then you’re restricted to driving automatics, practically everyone learns to drive (ahem) stick_\*. \*\*this is pretty wussy compared to the Finnish, if Top Gear is anything to go by they all learn to four-wheel drift. On ice. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/91 "2011-04-14T16:49:00Z")
Neutral, handbrake (though both our cars are autos these days). A lady friend of mine not long after I’d passed my car test commented sniffily on this, expecting I’d be slow away from the green light. She was surprised to see that as soon as the light went red-and-amber that I was already into a nicely grooved clutch-out-in-first-brake-off-clutch-in routine, and we were off as soon as the light was green. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Cowboy8467](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Cowboy8467](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cowboy8467)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/92 "2011-04-14T17:07:29Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > My husband’s Subaru won’t roll back when taking off on an incline. I don’t know what this feature is called. He’s becoming spoiled. Yep, it’s called [Hill Holder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill-holder). When I was in Spain this past winter I rented a 2011 Seat Leon that had this feature and it was pretty useful when I was on a steep hill, but probably unnecessary as I’ve become accustomed to driving a manual transmission in hilly places. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/93 "2011-04-14T18:59:28Z")
> [@Small\_Clanger](#): > > \ > > \*\*this is pretty wussy compared to the Finnish, if Top Gear is anything to go by they all learn to four-wheel drift. On ice. Well, hell, most Canadians learn that, too, but not usually on purpose. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/94 "2011-04-14T23:45:04Z")
> [@Red\_Stilettos](#): > > Yep. I let out the clutch until I can feel it beginning to engage, then quickly hit the gas. You may roll a bit, but unless the person behind you is ridiculously close, it’s not a problem. Getting used to that is the scariest part of learning to drive a stick and the reason that many of my friends won’t drive one. > > I find it just as strange that you are trying to drive with the parking brake engaged. Doesn’t that kill the parking brake? It doesn’t hurt the park brake that I’m aware of, if you do it properly you release the park brake just as you engage the clutch, so you are never actually attempting to move the car with the park brake engaged. As other posters have said about the park brake, in Australia it is an essential part of the drivers test. The demonstrated ability to do a park brake hill start. IIRC it is one of the ‘big’ items, that if you are unable to do one given three attempts you fail the test. That’s the way it used to be when I got my licence which admittedly is \>15 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/95 "2011-04-15T03:18:38Z")
> [@Sleel](#): > > Other: because it’s situational. Basically the same as **HM** The only time I’ve ever burned out a clutch is when I had a shitty old car I couldn’t afford to get a starter on for months, so I push-started it. I’m not sure that push starting a car could cause the clutch to burn out. I used to roll my '94 Saturn out of the driveway in reverse and pop the clutch to start it all the time, from when it was brand new. I put 120,000 hard miles on it in 2 1/2 years and traded it in with the original clutch. The hydraulic clutch cylinder had a leak after 100k, requiring fluid to be added once in a while, but the clutch still worked perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/96 "2011-04-15T13:38:11Z")
I lucked out finding my current car, a low-mileage Honda CR-V with manual. I’m saddened by the fact that mainstream car companies are increasingly phasing out manual transmission, and eventually, I may never find it again unless I buy a Porsche. ---
**Author:** ![Marc\_Xenos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Marc\_Xenos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marc_Xenos)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/97 "2011-04-15T19:37:04Z")
> [@jasonh300](#): > > I’m not sure that push starting a car could cause the clutch to burn out. If, ostensibly, just holding in the clutch while at a red light would wear out a clutch, then continually popping the clutch in a push start (regardless of intensity of said “pop”) would certainly apply more wear to it. But then, as I said earlier, I’ve never lost a clutch due to normal usage, and that’s after putting on 100K - 150K miles on a number of various makes and models. So whatever wear may be, it’s insignificant in my estimation. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/98 "2011-04-15T19:51:32Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > Depends on the length of the light but “Put the car in neutral with foot on the brake, and shift back to first when the light changes” is the correct answer and “Keep the car in first gear and clutch in, foot on the brake” is the shortcut people devolve to. When I took drivers’ ed. we were told to keep the car in gear so you were all set to gun it and get the hell out of the way in an emergency, wear to the car be damned. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/99 "2011-04-15T20:21:08Z")
Correlation not equalling causation, I don’t think push starting the car caused premature wear to the clutch. Eta: what wears out a clutch at a red light is not FULLY DEPRESSING THE CLUTCH PEDAL. You have a stationary vehicle, a motor idling at 800 rpm, and the friction material lightly grinding away and generation heat to the flywheel. ---
**Author:** ![Marc\_Xenos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Marc\_Xenos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marc_Xenos)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109/100 "2011-04-16T00:34:08Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > Eta: what wears out a clutch at a red light is not FULLY DEPRESSING THE CLUTCH PEDAL. You have a stationary vehicle, a motor idling at 800 rpm, and the friction material lightly grinding away and generation heat to the flywheel. THAT part I can readily buy. I’ve known drivers who constantly leave their foot on the clutch while driving, thinking they’re only staying ready. When, in reality, the clutch is slightly depressed. Same, as you said, about sitting at a light, with just a little friction point engaged but not enough to make the car go forward. For that reason, I do make sure the clutch is all the way when idling, and my foot is completely off it when driving. But not everyone is perfect like me. Kinda like those people with automatic transmissions that drive with one foot on the gas, and the other on the brake. Swearing that they really are NOT pushing on the brake at all, but you see them on the highway with permanent brake lights. And scorched brake pads. But while similar, it’s a different topic. Me, due to driving manual transmission most of the time, I just never got into the habit of using my left foot for the brake. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stopped-at-a-red-light-in-a-manual-transmission-do-you/578109.md?page=6)