# Store does not ask for PIN with debit card **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 6, 2018, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691 "2018-05-06T11:54:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/1 "2018-05-06T11:54:05Z")
My local Wal Mart grocery store does not ask for a PIN when I use my debit card. Is this common? It’s a store that only sells groceries not a full Wal Mart. Are they not worried about fraud ? ---
**Author:** ![KMS94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ad7895/32.png) [@KMS94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KMS94)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/2 "2018-05-06T12:00:07Z")
When I use a credit card at my local store, there is a threshold I have to cross, dollar-wise, before they ask for a signature. I believe it’s $30. Perhaps Walmart is the same? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/3 "2018-05-06T12:23:23Z")
it might be $50 as I spent $49 there today. I don’t recall going over $50 there . ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/4 "2018-05-06T12:39:00Z")
My debit card can be run as a credit card. In those instances I’ve never had a store ask me to enter a PIN, but they usually want a signature. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/5 "2018-05-06T12:42:33Z")
Also, just in the last week or two, a number of card issuers have said they will no longer require signatures at all. I have found this to be the case - more and more of my customers are not being required to sign for their purchases whether they’re using their cards as debit or credit. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/6 "2018-05-06T12:44:25Z")
they don’t ask me to sign either , this is self checkout ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/7 "2018-05-06T12:54:13Z")
Canadian cards (and I assume, American ones) have the “tap” feature. Basically, anything less than $100 (and a daily limit of $100) no PIN required. You don’t even have to insert the card, it works with NFC (Near Field Communications) if the card is tapped on enabled readers. I wonder if it is using the “Tap” option when the card is inserted? Where possible, I have disabled this feature - shine a bright LED through the card in a darkened room to find where the antenna traces are, and cut them with a few slices of an exacto knife. What’s the point of a feature that can cost you $100 if you lose your card? Our local Costco would do something similar - except I only tried it with credit card… No PIN required for anything under $C100. (Now they have Tap and if card is inserted PIN is required.) Of course, what’s the point of asking for a signature? If the card is inserted then the chip is verified; it’s the actual real card. Matching signatures is an art and once the card has departed and later possibly lost, how would the bank prove the signature did not match what was on the white stripe on the card? Any thief could have put their own signature there… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/8 "2018-05-06T13:45:11Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Canadian cards (and I assume, American ones) have the “tap” feature. Basically, anything less than $100 (and a daily limit of $100) no PIN required. You don’t even have to insert the card, it works with NFC (Near Field Communications) if the card is tapped on enabled readers. I wonder if it is using the “Tap” option when the card is inserted? Only some cards in the US have the tap feature. Many stores do not require a signature for under a designated amount (At my store it’s $50, other stores have other limits). And, again, many American cards no longer require a signature for any amount. > [@](#): > > Of course, what’s the point of asking for a signature? If the card is inserted then the chip is verified; it’s the actual real card. Matching signatures is an art and once the card has departed and later possibly lost, how would the bank prove the signature did not match what was on the white stripe on the card? Any thief could have put their own signature there… For sure, the machines where you write your signature on a screen don’t care about the actual writing - any mark at all in the little box will be accepted as a signature and there’s no matching done. It’s actually pointless, but continues because for so long signing things was a thing. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/9 "2018-05-07T15:25:37Z")
In the U.S. I believe the store does not have the option of whether to ask for the PIN; it is required to authenticate your card to the network. Does your debit card carry Visa or MasterCard branding on it? If so then the store is running your debit card as if it were a credit card, processing through that association’s network rather than the debit card network. It still comes out of your bank account in the end, but the way it’s processed is different. I would expect the store would prefer to run it as a debit card, because I think the merchant fees may be lower that way. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/10 "2018-05-07T15:30:58Z")
yes it is a Visa debit card ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/11 "2018-05-07T15:59:39Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Where possible, I have disabled this feature - shine a bright LED through the card in a darkened room to find where the antenna traces are, and cut them with a few slices of an exacto knife. What’s the point of a feature that can cost you $100 if you lose your card? It just boggles the mind how lack of security is sold as a “feature”. Why yes, that warm yellow liquid running down your leg is just fresh rainwater. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/12 "2018-05-07T16:10:50Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > It just boggles the mind how lack of security is sold as a “feature”. Why yes, that warm yellow liquid running down your leg is just fresh rainwater. Somehow this reminds me of some movie in which the villain asks, “I assume the thumb print will work whether or not your thumb is still attached.” or words to that effect. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/13 "2018-05-07T16:40:32Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > For sure, the machines where you write your signature on a screen don’t care about the actual writing - any mark at all in the little box will be accepted as a signature and there’s no matching done. It’s actually pointless, but continues because for so long signing things was a thing. Are you sure it’s completely pointless? I can imagine the credit card company going back and checking signatures if you reported a stolen card or unauthorized purchases, or if their system triggered suspicious activity. But I don’t know the straight dope. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/14 "2018-05-07T16:54:02Z")
Not requiring a signature and Not requiring a PIN are different things. I’ve asked “What, you didn’t need my PIN?” before in situations like that, and was told that they had run my card as Visa instead of debit, because they could. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/15 "2018-05-07T17:00:50Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > yes it is a Visa debit card What you are describing happened to me a couple of times after I got my new VISA card with tap enabled (which I did not ask for, but was given without my knowledge). I normally enter the PIN for my debit card with my wallet held over the keypad to shield the numbers I’m typing in from prying eyes; I did this a couple of times with debit card machines that were tap enabled, and the machine pre-empted my VISA card in my wallet over the debit card I had inserted in the machine. I discovered what was happening when I got my next VISA statement. I keep my wallet away from the machine until I have selected “Chequing account” as the method of payment, and the problem is now solved.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/16 "2018-05-07T18:15:46Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > yes it is a Visa debit card Visa does not require a PIN. They’re running it as a Visa card, not a debit card. Larger transactions might require a signature, but they’ll never require your PIN unless specifically processed as a debit card. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/17 "2018-05-07T18:19:58Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > It just boggles the mind how lack of security is sold as a “feature”. Why yes, that warm yellow liquid running down your leg is just fresh rainwater. Where is the risk? If someone stole the card, you’re not going to have to pay that amount back. I’ve never seen a company hold someone accountable for fraudulent transactions. Considering I’ve never had an issue disputing a charge with any of my credit card companies, I am much more concerned with convenience than security. Security is something they should be concerned with, as it only effects them. If I don’t have to pay it, it doesn’t effect me at all. That’s why it’s a “feature”. They’re sacrificing some of their own security for my convenience. I’m fine with that. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Are you sure it’s completely pointless? I can imagine the credit card company going back and checking signatures if you reported a stolen card or unauthorized purchases, or if their system triggered suspicious activity. But I don’t know the straight dope. I believe it is pointless. I’ve never bothered to scribe my actual signature on a digital pad. I make a little squiggle and that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/18 "2018-05-07T18:36:06Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Visa does not require a PIN. They’re running it as a Visa card, not a debit card. Larger transactions might require a signature, but they’ll never require your PIN unless specifically processed as a debit card. Interesting. When I use my debit card (Visa) at Wal-Mart, or any place else I shop, I’m always asked for my PIN. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/19 "2018-05-08T00:06:19Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Where is the risk? If someone stole the card, you’re not going to have to pay that amount back. I’ve never seen a company hold someone accountable for fraudulent transactions. Considering I’ve never had an issue disputing a charge with any of my credit card companies, I am much more concerned with convenience than security. Security is something they should be concerned with, as it only effects them. If I don’t have to pay it, it doesn’t effect me at all. That’s why it’s a “feature”. They’re sacrificing some of their own security for my convenience. I’m fine with that. Yeah, this is why I never understood the people who want to write “see ID” on a credit card. Never mind being a violation of the rules, it doesn’t even do anything to make you more secure. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691/20 "2018-05-08T00:28:55Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Yeah, this is why I never understood the people who want to write “see ID” on a credit card. Never mind being a violation of the rules, it doesn’t even do anything to make you more secure. That is not a violation of the rules in itself as a person can make their own signature, but it still requires the signatures to match. Anything but ‘see ID’ in a similar fashion to what is on the card would not be acceptable. But if one signed see ID that’s all that could be accepted. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/store-does-not-ask-for-pin-with-debit-card/813691.md?page=2)