# Stories about class conflicts between white Southerners where poor whites are not the villains **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 19, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137 "2018-02-19T19:00:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/21 "2018-02-20T01:47:40Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > _Where the Lilies Bloom_? Appalachian impoverished “white trash” family in a lonely mountain cabin struggle courageously and intelligently to scratch out a living together as per their promise to their deceased father, despite occasional clashes with local landowners. Yes, Lord! Ya’ll are helping me remember so many I had forgotten. I actually read this in college. Mary Call, Devola & Romey. What a great story! Is anybody writing anything like this anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/22 "2018-02-20T02:46:13Z")
Well, the authors of _Where the Lilies Bloom_ wrote several other books including a direct sequel called _Trial Valley_. Some of the regional Young Adult fiction of Lois Lenski, like _Cotton in My Sack_ and _Strawberry Girl_, focuses on poor white people in the American South. Dunno how much class conflict is involved, though. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/23 "2018-02-20T02:54:33Z")
> [@Grumbacher\_Red](#): > > I did read that, ages ago. So long ago, I forgot what it was about. I think I still have my copy somewhere around here. It’s all about Southern society around 1910 with conflicts between middle and lower class white southerners with none of them demonized (though there are some villains). ---
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/24 "2018-02-20T03:01:44Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > It’s all about Southern society around 1910 with conflicts between middle and lower class white southerners with none of them demonized (though there are some villains). And isn’t there a man who marries a much younger woman and the town is scandalized? Yeah, I gotta revisit that. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/25 "2018-02-20T03:51:29Z")
_A Painted House_? ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/26 "2018-02-20T03:56:08Z")
I recommend the writings of Joe R. Lansdale, especially the Hap and Leonard series. They are set in East Texas, and Hap and Leonard are both poor; Hap is white and Leonard is black (and gay). The stories are not \*about \*race, but the topic does arise. There is a Netflix series that is a pretty good interpretation. Lansdale grew up a poor white in East Texas and that flavors his writing. He is also a terrific story teller, and if you can hear him in person it is even better. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/27 "2018-02-20T04:16:43Z")
George and Martha Johnson from Roots. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/28 "2018-02-20T05:00:49Z")
_Shepherd of the Hills_? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/29 "2018-02-20T11:46:30Z")
> [@Grumbacher\_Red](#): > > And isn’t there a man who marries a much younger woman and the town is scandalized? Yeah, I gotta revisit that. A much younger _Yankee_ woman, just days after his first wife died. ---
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/30 "2018-02-20T12:31:08Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > _A Painted House_? Yes, this looks promising, thank you! My maternal grandmother was born in Arkansas and spent her early childhood there, and her parents were poor laborers in the area by way of Appalachia. I think I could get into it. However, I see it was made into a (Barf) Hallmark movie, so I hope it isn’t too sickeningly sweet, lol! ---
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/31 "2018-02-20T12:39:25Z")
> [@Reno\_Nevada](#): > > I recommend the writings of Joe R. Lansdale, especially the Hap and Leonard series. They are set in East Texas, and Hap and Leonard are both poor; Hap is white and Leonard is black (and gay). The stories are not \*about \*race, but the topic does arise. There is a Netflix series that is a pretty good interpretation. > > Lansdale grew up a poor white in East Texas and that flavors his writing. He is also a terrific story teller, and if you can hear him in person it is even better. I am definitely going to check this out, it sounds good. And yes, I understand you can’t have a Southern story that doesn’t have any elements of race in it, that would be unrealistic, so that is fine. I usually gravitate towards those stories that are stereotype busters of the typical evil whites/saintly blacks paradigm. My South is so much more than that. Sometimes I will be reading an old slave narrative or the diary of an antebellum lady that will contain the most lovely anecdote of a human interaction, some of them even comical, and it makes me wonder why no one ever wrote a book about it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/32 "2018-02-20T12:46:26Z")
_Tobacco Road_? ---
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/33 "2018-02-20T12:53:37Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > George and Martha Johnson from Roots. I’m sorry, but I can’t do Roots ever, ever again. It is a very long story that I have learned to see some humor in since, but let’s just say it was absolutely no fun being 12 years old in 1976 in the 7th grade in an 85% black rural school in South Georgia and Roots is on TV every night, and you have to go to school the next day and be yelled at and pushed around and genuinely afraid of people you thought were your friends the week before who now see me as an enemy, and the teachers don’t do anything to try and stop it or have a productive discussion…it completely changed the dynamic between my classmates and we were never the same…I can see Roots on a shelf in a store and suddenly I am that frightened 12 year old girl again. I seriously think I have PTSD about it, you just don’t even know! This horrendous run-on sentence I just wrote should tell you something! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/34 "2018-02-20T13:01:24Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > _Shepherd of the Hills_? I like it! It goes on the list! ---
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/35 "2018-02-20T13:03:45Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > A much younger _Yankee_ woman, just days after his first wife died. Oh no! Not a _Yankee_ woman! I think it is coming back to me now and I remember feeling the story could have better, like she didn’t take the characters quite far enough. A really great Southern story needs a good dollop of crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/36 "2018-02-20T13:05:11Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > _Tobacco Road_? From what I remember about it, I think this story is the very thing I am fighting against. Aren’t the people depicted really sexually depraved and lacking morals? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/37 "2018-02-20T13:28:46Z")
> [@Grumbacher\_Red](#): > > From what I remember about it, I think this story is the very thing I am fighting against. Aren’t the people depicted really sexually depraved and lacking morals? Somewhat - I mean, it’s no _God’s Little Acre_ (also by Erskine Caldwell) but I see what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/38 "2018-02-20T13:44:51Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Somewhat - I mean, it’s no _God’s Little Acre_ (also by Erskine Caldwell) but I see what you mean. Yeah, I have some contempt for Erskine Caldwell. I think I may go back and look Tobacco Road over again just to be sure I still hate it. I remember being really put off by this scene where a young girl just walks around the side of the house in the yard masturbating. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Stana\_Claus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stana_claus/32/13874_2.png) [@Stana\_Claus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stana_Claus)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/39 "2018-02-20T15:37:43Z")
Not really about class conflicts, but certainly showing an atypical view of a rural southern boy’s life from the 1930’s through WWII - Run With the Horsemen, The Whisper of the River, and When All the World was Young, plus several collections of short stories by [Ferrol Sams](https://www.amazon.com/Ferrol-Sams/e/B000AQ1RFQ). There are lots of interactions between different classes and races that don’t follow the stereotypical patterns, plus they are very enjoyable reads. I highly recommend them to anyone who isn’t familiar with Mr. Sams’ work. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137/40 "2018-02-20T16:10:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Grumbacher Red** : > > No, I don’t want anything where race is the central theme, it sucks all the oxygen out of the room and doesn’t leave space for anything else. So, you want stories about class conflict in the South, but where race isn’t the central theme? I’m not sure where that leaves you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-about-class-conflicts-between-white-southerners-where-poor-whites-are-not-the-villains/809137.md?page=3)