I wonder if she came up with that herself or if she was aware of this famous deposition.
Are you sure you meant to type “defendant” in the first and third quote?
Casual sexism is more common in the court system than you appear to think.
Wait, how is it sexism to ask someone how she wishes to be addressed?
The question assumes that a woman is either Ms or Mrs.
Most forms that I’ve filled out (unrelated to jury duty) often have a “Dr” option or “other”.
Jury service should be the same. Either give more options (“Dr”, “Rev”, etc.) or have an open-ended question: “How do you like to be addressed?” that is the same for all.
Wasn’t this someone asking her how she wishes to be addressed, not a form?
Sure. And why did the person asking think there are only two options to address a woman, neither of which relate to professional qualifications?
It’s not unusual that more than one woman has experienced this issue.
See this thread for an earlier discussion:
OK, you’re right. But why did the questioner not allow for the possibility that the woman was a reverend, professor, captain, major, colonel, general, admiral, commander, etc? Or the woman could have just replied with the preferred title.
She did: "One woman, in a flat tone of voice, looked over her glasses and said, “It’s Dr. !” "
Presumably that’s the title used thereafter, so I repeat; where is the sexism?
because the initial question in the example wasn’t open-ended: “If a woman was married she was asked if she prefered to be addressed as Mrs. or Ms.”
This was certainly true in my years of working in courtrooms. I found it quite galling.
It’s very sexist and regressive if you don’t ask simply ask someone how they wish to be addressed.
I’ve related this story before on the board, but I’ll tell it again as it was one of the more Karmic moments I enjoyed in my career.
I was working for a judge who was very old school. During jury selection, he always addressed the men as “Mister.”
To the women, he would always ask, “Is it Miss? Or Mrs.?” as if those were the only available options for women. The limited choices effectively created three classes for the women in the jury pool, because divorced women invariably said, “It’s Ms.” And this obviously didn’t even allow for self-descriptors within our current understanding of gender fluidity or titles held by any gender.
The court reporter and I admonished him regularly for this nitwittery.
One day, he asked a person who was, to all outward appearances, gender neutral, “Is it Miss? Or Mrs.?” The person responded, “It’s Mister!”
The court reporter and I avoided looking at one another at all costs, because we know we’d fall out of our chairs with laughter if we did. The judge was briefly speechless – a condition I’d never seen before.
All this could have been avoided if he would just have done as we entreated him to, asking each person, “How would you prefer to be addressed?”
He never did give up his outmoded, sexist practice, unfortunately. I hoped things would have changed in the intervening years, but maybe not.
You are correct.
And I have also made a note of my subconscious bias in equating “homeless man” with defendant.
You say that it got brought up during your deliberations, but — was that it? Did the prosecution draw any attention to it after it happened? Did the judge give you a Jim-Looking-Into-The-Camera-On-The-Office look as it happened? Did loud gasps and shocked murmurs ripple through the courtroom? Or — was it all just on the shoulders of the jury?
Plus, “Ms.” is appropriate for all women, regardless of marital status (that’s the whole point of “Ms.”). So if you’re going to default to gendered titles at all, it should be “Mr.” for the men, and “Ms.” for the women, until/unless they say otherwise.
(that was one of the nice things about working in academia: You could just default to “Dr.” for everyone, it was usually true, and even when it wasn’t, nobody was offended by it)
I’ve gotten the letter 3 times, served twice. Both criminal. One not guilty, one guilty. I really enjoyed the actual juror part. The trials were fascinating and I felt a lot of civic pride doing my part. The process is messed up and wish it could run better. As a single parent of a little one (under 10 at the time), getting called during the summer would have been much easier for me than during the snowy winter of a school year. I would really like a letter saying “You’re getting called in the next 12 months. Here are 4 different time periods. Rank them in order of easiest to hardest.” And you can be like “I do tax prep. March is out for me” or whatever. But, alas, it’s chaos and will always be chaos.
My second time serving was very annoying in a few small ways. There are 3 courthouses within 5 miles of where I lived but I got called to the other end of the county. It was a very long drive, and if I didn’t have a car/license, I don’t know how they expect people to get there. Then they had 3 cases scheduled for the day I went but only 2 deliberation rooms. We were empaneled and were sent to sit out in folding chairs in the judges’ hallway. I said “We’re going to be deliberating out here.” The bailiff or clerk was like “Absolutely not. The other cases will be done and you’ll be in a proper room.” I was right. We deliberated in a hallway, but did finish up in a room eventually. I said I was a weirdness magnet and if you say the words “That will never happen” around me, it will happen.
I’ve also not minded my service because both times I had jobs that paid me while I went. My kid is older now so childcare isn’t an issue, should I be called again for a normal trial, but it really did suck having to find someone to do pick ups and drop offs while I got up at 5am so I could make it to the super-far courthouse in time.
My second case was a DUI and we convicted him, but not without hesitation. The judge spoke to us after and it was his second conviction and had refused a breathalyzer, which is why no results had been introduced at trial. Knowing that info after the trial put my mind more at ease for the conviction. I mean, I was convinced beyond a reasonable doubt, but it was just that AHA bit of non-admissable evidence that was reassuring.
Yeah, that’s another problem with
“If a woman was married she was asked if she prefered to be addressed as Mrs. or Ms.”
It suggests that single women were not asked - and my guess is that single women would automatically have been addressed as " Miss". I’ve encountered a shocking number of people who believe either that only married women ever use “Ms.” (because they don’t want people to know they are married, which makes no sense ) or that “Ms.” is only used by divorced women.
OK. I am going in. And it’s the first day of my reporting call in period Every other time over the last 33 years it’s been on the last or next to last day.
Here, the notice to call in comes with a paper bus pass for the first day. Of course, busses have their own problems.
It could have been worse. My son had jury duty in the old courthouse. There were no chairs or benches provided in the hallway. The judge kept having talks with the lawyers and the jury would have to go stand in the hallway, sometimes for hours.
Santa Barbara is such a small town. Every time I’ve known someone on the panel and today is no exception. There’s a person here who was a friend and coworker in the 90s.