# Stories where the hero and villain never meet (possible spoilers?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 2, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-where-the-hero-and-villain-never-meet-possible-spoilers/222191 "2004-01-02T00:23:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-where-the-hero-and-villain-never-meet-possible-spoilers/222191/1 "2004-01-02T00:23:21Z")
One of the things I’ve always thought was interesting about “Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan” is that Kirk and Khan never actually _meet_. They do have some brief communications, but they’re never in the same room. An even more extreme example is “The Fifth Element”, where not only do Korben Dallas and Zorg never meet, but they never even communicate with each other. I’ve been trying to think of other examples, and not just for movies as well. I’m sure that somewhere in my collection of books there’s a novel with this quirk involving the protagonist and antagonist. Can anyone else name some other movies or books with this type of set-up between the hero and the villain? ---
**Author:** ![A\_Curious\_Writer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@A\_Curious\_Writer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Curious_Writer)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-where-the-hero-and-villain-never-meet-possible-spoilers/222191/2 "2004-01-02T00:27:54Z")
The old '70s, early ‘80s kids’ show “Battle of the Planets” was one; Zoltar always _just_ got away, it seemed. Considering that it was a great step up in that the good guys in G Force were more 3 dimensional, and quite a bit of fun for me as a kid, I think it belongs. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-where-the-hero-and-villain-never-meet-possible-spoilers/222191/3 "2004-01-02T00:59:13Z")
First **Star Wars** film? Luke and Vader meet in combat over the Death Star in fighters; the most contact between them happens when Vader senses the strength of the force in Luke. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-where-the-hero-and-villain-never-meet-possible-spoilers/222191/4 "2004-01-02T01:16:01Z")
**LOTR** – Frodo doesn’t really meet Sauron face to face (or face to eye, as it were) – except in a vision sort of thingy, and that’s just the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-where-the-hero-and-villain-never-meet-possible-spoilers/222191/5 "2004-01-02T01:21:25Z")
Not 100% sure, but in **Braveheart** , I’m thinking that Wallace (Mel Gibson) never met King Asswipe, did he? He just battled all the lackeys before… getting betrayed, spitted, and gutted. ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-where-the-hero-and-villain-never-meet-possible-spoilers/222191/6 "2004-01-02T01:42:36Z")
The Lord of the Rings? Nobody really meets Sauron, and I’m still not clear on whether or not he has a body at all. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-where-the-hero-and-villain-never-meet-possible-spoilers/222191/7 "2004-01-02T02:07:43Z")
Inspector Gadget never met what’s-his-name in the cartoons. I never saw the live action movie. I guess that doesn’t technically count for the OP, but it’s close. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-where-the-hero-and-villain-never-meet-possible-spoilers/222191/8 "2004-01-02T04:26:54Z")
Actually, Inspector Gadget _does_ meet Dr. Claw in one episode. However, Gadget doesn’t know what Dr. Claw looks like, so he doesn’t realize who he’s talking to. (No, we don’t get to see Dr. Claw, just the famous back of his chair. However, Gadget talks to him face-to-face, which made for an interesting reverse-dramatic-irony kind of situation.) ---
**Author:** ![vandal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/858c86/32.png) [@vandal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vandal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-where-the-hero-and-villain-never-meet-possible-spoilers/222191/9 "2004-01-02T04:35:01Z")
In the Jack Nicholson film, **The Pledge** , he plays a detective on the hunt for a murderer. The murderer dies. Consequently, they never meet. ---
**Author:** ![Courk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@Courk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Courk)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-where-the-hero-and-villain-never-meet-possible-spoilers/222191/10 "2004-01-02T06:48:22Z")
Most of the robbers in the newer Ocean’s 11 never mim a meet the owner. I don’t know if you’d call him a villain, though. Or if theives qualify as heros. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-where-the-hero-and-villain-never-meet-possible-spoilers/222191/11 "2004-01-02T06:54:41Z")
_The Pledge_ is a great example, and a very complex film. I remember a Batman story (in prose form, not comic form) about a dry cleaner who specialized in cleaning superhero/villain costumes. The story is called “Neutral Ground” and I read it in the anthology [The Further Adventues of Batman](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553282700/qid=1073026473/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-9737383-1483237?v=glance&s=books), though I can’t remember the author. Good story… Batman and the Joker are both in it, though they don’t meet face-to-face in this particular story. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc348/32.png) [@MonkeyMule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMule)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-where-the-hero-and-villain-never-meet-possible-spoilers/222191/12 "2004-01-02T07:12:52Z")
Well in **The 5th Element** Corbin Dallas (Bruce Willis) never meets Zorg (Gary Oldman) ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-where-the-hero-and-villain-never-meet-possible-spoilers/222191/13 "2004-01-02T08:29:13Z")
Good one, **MonkeyMule** , I never would have thought of that one. 😛 If Christopher Walken is considered the main bad guy, which I think he is, then **True Romance**. ---
**Author:** ![dwc1970](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a183cd/32.png) [@dwc1970](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwc1970)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-where-the-hero-and-villain-never-meet-possible-spoilers/222191/14 "2004-01-02T15:27:50Z")
In the 1970’s made-for-TV movie _Duel_, one of Spielberg’s earliest works, the innocent car driver and the truck driver who antagonizes him on the road, never meet. In fact, we never even see what the truck driver looks like.