# Stories with a Villain as Protagonist

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-with-a-villain-as-protagonist/450976>\
**Category:** Cafe Society\
**Created:** [May 29, 2008, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-with-a-villain-as-protagonist/450976 "2008-05-29T02:40:48Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 5

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\
**Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-with-a-villain-as-protagonist/450976/81 "2008-06-02T15:28:08Z")

</div>

[QUOTE=TWDuke]  
I respectfully disagree. The protagonist is simply the main character of a story. It’s a term that comes to us from Greek drama. Yes, the antagonist i the chief character opposing the protagonist.  
[/QUOTE]  
Thank you, I’m aware of this. Despite my film-geek credentials on the boards, my background is actually in theater. I have a fine-arts degree with an emphasis in the classics, including Greek theater. And I was using the term as the Greeks did.

There are two keys to understanding “driving the action” in this sense: first, understanding that it’s the action _of the story_, and second, _defining_ what “action” means. Applied properly, “tortured” readings should not result.

In your examples, Moses is the protagonist of _The Ten Commandments_ because the action _of the story_ is “lead the people to freedom.” In _The Lord of the Rings_, the action _of the story_ is “destroy Sauron by carrying the Ring to Mount Doom.” The initiation of Sauron’s superobjective precedes the inciting incident of _this story._ With reference to the original Greeks, Oedipus is the protagonist of his eponymous play, because whatever else might have happened beforehand, and whatever else anybody else might be pursuing, the action _of this story_ is “solve the murder of Laius.”

On the second point, the _action_ is most simply seen as “the change to be accomplished.” In other words, when the protagonist is finished, the world will be different; the antagonist, by contrast, wants to prevent that change. Oedipus, once he unravels the mystery, will punish the king’s murderer; the killer will be exiled. When Frodo is done, the Ring will be destroyed and Sauron will be dead. Frodo’s objective does not result in merely a restoration of the status quo; fundamental change will result.

Okay, yeah, I’ll admit, I was being cutesy with my James Bond example, but since you brought it up… 🙂

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\
**Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-with-a-villain-as-protagonist/450976/82 "2008-06-02T15:38:33Z")

</div>

[QUOTE=kingpengvin]  
Alex in A Clockwork Orange.  
[/QUOTE]

Not only are Alex and his droogs predatory criminals, but almost every other character is contemptible in one way or another. The police and prison guards are arrogant, authoritarian bullies, Alex’s social worker is smug and condescending, his parents are irresponsible and weak-willed nebbishes, the scientists are Frankensteinian, the politicians of both sides just want to use Alex for their own purposes. The only really good-hearted character is the prison chaplain, and he’s a fool.

[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stories-with-a-villain-as-protagonist/450976.md?page=4)