# Story Memes or Themes You Just Can't Stand **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 1, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808 "2012-06-01T19:13:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/81 "2012-06-03T23:38:43Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > - life (or human civilization) couldn’t possibly have happend without outside [alien] assistance. Throws almost all of know science out with the bathwater. Does it, though? I don’t know much about the subject but I didn’t think there was much certainty about how life first began on this planet and the idea that it was at least somehow affected by something extraterrestrial (even if just a meteor made of the right stuff) was entirely possible. > [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > I disagree with that one a bit. Humanizing the big bad guy is far worse. Sometimes you need a villain that is just plain evil. _The Lord of the Rings_ would suck if Sauron wasn’t the embodiment of pure evil. Sauron had a difficult childhood. Morgoth killed his puppy and locked him in cellars to make him a man. Possibly a balrog touched him. > [@andrew\_1](#): > > **well he’s back** in the OP mentioned the worst to me when I saw the thread title and I’d be interested in the Dope’s take on this because no one I’ve expressed this to ever agrees with me. > > A lot of people buy into the soppy, ‘powerful’ Chosen One routine, but I think this literary cop out has the opposite effect of what it’s supposed to. If the hero is THE CHOSEN ONE, then surely, that invalidates every heroic thing they did (in a sense), because they were chosen to be the one. It doesn’t mean anything. If you were singled out by some stars-aligning, magical, fateful mystery as the only one that can save the world/defeat the evil lord/whatever, then surely that’s less of a great story than if some average nobody did what the hero accomplished? > > To use Harry Potter as an example, and I know that it was explained in the books that technically the Prophecy didn’t mean only Harry could kill Voldemort, but surely it would have been more heroic for someone like Ron Weasley to kill Voldy since he wasn’t ‘chosen’ at all? I agree with your point, although often it’s more that only one guy has any hope of doing something so it falls to them, but there’s still a good chance of failure and it still requires them to do stuff right. Also there’s always the possibility that the “chosen one” is chosen specifically for their attributes or potential, and so they have earned their victory in some respect. Finally, had Ron Weasley killed Voldemort my eyes would have rolled like they’ve never rolled before. ---
**Author:** ![Jormungandr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@Jormungandr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jormungandr)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/82 "2012-06-03T23:48:19Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > I like plenty of shows involving a brilliant detective who regularly beats the cops at their own game, but I don’t like shows where the police department is filled with incompetent boobs who wouldn’t be able to feed or dress themselves if Mr. Wonderful hadn’t decided to grace them with his perfect presence. I hate the variant where the detectives are competent unless there’s some big name guest star whose character makes look like it’s their first day on the job. This happens a lot on “Law & Order: Special Victims Unit.” ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/83 "2012-06-04T00:58:46Z")
If the story is about police detectives, the uniformed police are bumbling incompetents, or at least only good for following instructions like “guard this door”. If it’s American, the FBI are soulless, interfering and way too anal, official and obtuse to get the job done the “right” way. The FBI tries to walk all over them but in the end the detectives prove their worth. If it’s about the FBI, all police mean well but are essentially useless at anything other than open and shut. They’re quite likely resentful of the FBI’s involvement but in the end realize their superiority. Other government agencies take on the “soulless” role occupied by the FBI in the detective stories. If the story is about an intelligence agency or something along the lines of 24’s CTU, the FBI take on the role occupied by detectives in the FBI stories - i.e. they mean well but they’re cute and naive and really don’t understand. There will probably still be some soulless interferers somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/84 "2012-06-04T03:12:16Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > You-tube has everything, a Dink auction.🙂 > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XcXZqqzhO0](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XcXZqqzhO0) Wow… After watching that and the intro to the actual movie, I don’t know how I managed to live happily without knowing this existed. I am going to have to watch this, and I have a feeling that I’ll have to add this to Logan’s Run on my list of really awful movies that I like with no rational explanation at all. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/85 "2012-06-04T03:36:11Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > Wow… After watching that and the intro to the actual movie, I don’t know how I managed to live happily without knowing this existed. I am going to have to watch this, and I have a feeling that I’ll have to add this to Logan’s Run on my list of really awful movies that I like with no rational explanation at all. HOLY SHIT! Young Dr. Pulaski just bitchslapped a girl! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/86 "2012-06-04T03:55:36Z")
I hate the “realistic” story with the supernaturally unkillable villain. People really just aren’t that hard to kill, writers! THEY AREN’T! ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/87 "2012-06-04T16:59:26Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > I disagree with that one a bit. Humanizing the big bad guy is far worse. Sometimes you need a villain that is just plain evil. _The Lord of the Rings_ would suck if Sauron wasn’t the embodiment of pure evil. > > Those types of stories, if done well, work. It allows the reader, or audience, to focus on what the heroes have to overcome. Tad Williams’ _Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn_ series had a similarly “pure evil” villain (though the story and the villain’s ultimate defeat were quite different). > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The scenario where women have created an all-female or nearly so society after men have most or all died off or the women went off and created their own male-free society, and the resulting female run society is nicer, kinder, more enlightened, more environmentally enlightened, and in general better in all ways than a society with those evil filthy men running around. Remember Queen Latifah’s sitcom, _Living Single_, back in the 1990s? There was one scene (which was endlessly played in the commercials before the series launched, the only reason I remember it) where one of the female characters asked, “But what would the world be like without men?” and Latifah’s character replied, “A bunch of fat, happy women, and no crime!” ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/88 "2012-06-04T17:15:20Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > When the hero corners the bad guy (after an epic chase and/or fight, during the course of which they both killed dozens of other people and caused massive property damage), and the partner/sidekick/freshly-rescued-damsel-in-distress stops him just before delivering the fatal blow because “that would make us just as bad as him,” followed _immediately_ by the bad guy attacking with a hidden weapon and the hero killing him anyway. Extra points if we see the hero appear to deliver the _coup de grâce_ with his sword/axe/gun/whatever followed by a slow pan to the squinting baddie looking surprised to still be alive. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/89 "2012-06-06T00:25:34Z")
It was all a dream / hallucination / inside the mind of the insane guy. This never, ever makes sense. There are always elements of depth and detail that have nothing to do with the dream or hallucination, and in 99% of cases we hear dialogue or see things that the character supposedly dreaming / hallucinating would not be and could not be aware of. This plot device is just lazy writing by hack writers. In sci-fi, the character is supposed to be a hologram or projection but looks just like any other character, and interacts with the environment just like any other character, and the only lip-service paid to the ‘hologram’ idea is a couple of cheap, do-it-on-a-laptop FX shots per series. Holograms and projections do not look the same as 3D solid objects under any conditions. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/90 "2012-06-06T01:15:13Z")
So we start with a premise that there are vampires in the world which have remained hidden from the population as a whole. Now, this may be totally overdone by now, but there’s a certain logic to it: (a) vampires look just like humans, so they CAN remain hidden (b) but they do have some serious vulnerabilities, so it is to their BENEFIT to remain hidden I’m OK with this premise, and am willing to enjoy fiction with that as the backdrop. However, we often go from there (I’m looking at you, Buffy (which I love), True Love (which I enjoyed for a while), Twilight (which I’ve never read), and the pulpy “The President’s Vampire” series) to “oh, and every other supernatural thing under the sun also exists”, which just makes no sense at all. There’s no way that people can learn to cast magic spells and there are thousands of species of humanoid demons, some of them friggin’ enormous, and some people turn into wolves every full moon… and it all still remains secret. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/91 "2012-06-06T02:41:27Z")
Have we done “Eeeeviil Scientists Who Want To Rule The World” yet? There might be one scientist alive now who wants to rule the world, but he can’t dress himself. The rest of the scientists want to rule their granting agency. Need to derail a scientists’ coup? Fully fund their labs, and they’ll never bother you again. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/92 "2012-06-06T03:22:18Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The magic-in-the-real-world stories where the various gods and spirits of myth are real, but it _just happens_ that the _Christian_ god is the One True God, Supreme Being & creator of the universe, while the _other_ gods re just powerful supernaturals. What sort of stories have this meme? I’ve never heard of any. ---
**Author:** ![MacSpon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@MacSpon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacSpon)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/93 "2012-06-06T03:54:42Z")
SF stories where Humanity Triumphs Against Impossible Odds. The aliens invade, or come into conflict with Earth in some way, or maybe just look at us funny, and suddenly Earth is in a desperate conflict against an immeasurably (technologically) superior enemy against which we cannot possibly win. But of course we do, because we’re sneakier, or luckier, or gutsier, or something. Bonus hate points if we only win because humanity is Special, and our win was Fated To Be. … Actually, this hate can easily extend to sports stories where the heroes come from far behind to win competitions that they couldn’t possibly have won. There are a lot of those, too. The SF version is presumably supposed to make us feel good about ourselves. The sports version is presumably supposed to make us feel good about … well, something. But what it mostly makes me feel is angry that the writer cheated. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/94 "2012-06-06T04:05:34Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What sort of stories have this meme? I’ve never heard of any. The TV show \*Supernatural \*springs to mind. Tulpas and ghosts and genus loci etc… are all real - but naturally a lone angel can destroy a roomful of _actual Hindu gods_ without breaking a sweat (actually, I forget the exact circumstances of that particular scene, but it was very, very :dubious: when I watched it) ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/95 "2012-06-06T05:17:19Z")
I’m tired of seeing petite women flipping, punching-out, delivering devastating kicks and just generally beating the shit out of men twice their size, because…they know _Kung Fu_ or some shit. It’s just unrealistic and over-done. The choreography usually requires the male combatants to stand still with their arms spread wide, like _woah, I can’t defend myself against her blazing speed and power._ Meanwhile, the heroine finishes off the hapless guy with a painfully slow and obvious roundhouse kick to the ear. Uh huh, sure. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/96 "2012-06-06T06:06:56Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Tad Williams’ _Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn_ series had a similarly “pure evil” villain (though the story and the villain’s ultimate defeat were quite different). I disagree with your interpretation there pretty strongly. In fact… [spoiler]…the climax of the series _requires_ that the other characters humanize Ineluki, and forgive him for his evil. Ineluki has been deeply, even totally, corrupted, but all of his actions stem from what were originally noble impulses: heroism, loyalty to his people, a refusal to surrender in the face of incredible odds. As Binabik said, “Once, he loved his people very much.”[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/97 "2012-06-06T06:49:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I disagree with your interpretation there pretty strongly. In fact… > > [spoiler]…the climax of the series _requires_ that the other characters humanize Ineluki, and forgive him for his evil. Ineluki has been deeply, even totally, corrupted, but all of his actions stem from what were originally noble impulses: heroism, loyalty to his people, a refusal to surrender in the face of incredible odds. > > As Binabik said, “Once, he loved his people very much.”[/spoiler] Oh yes, I understood that completely, and agree with your interpretation. I suppose I misspoke by using the word “similarly”, which may have suggested that I thought he was the same _kind_ of “pure evil” as Sauron. I simply meant that he had _become_ “pure evil” by the time the reader “meets” him. We learn of his motivations as the story progresses, but his original motives don’t lessen the evil he _is_ and _does_during the course of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/98 "2012-06-06T19:13:56Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What sort of stories have this meme? I’ve never heard of any. An episode of Zena had this. Zena was trying to prevent a man killing his child because a “god” told him to. In the end you hear a voice say basically, nevermind, then it is implied the one true god stopped it. And this show had other gods everywhere, yet the Christian one was actually real. It has been a while since I saw it, but that episode stood out for that reason. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/99 "2012-06-06T19:21:12Z")
I left out that it was obviously a take on the Abraham and Isaac story. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808/100 "2012-06-06T19:31:50Z")
The perpetual loser that fate always pisses on. Think Al from _Married with Children_ or Alan from _Two and a Half Men_. In fact, 2 1/2 Men is virtually unwatchable for me because the situation Alan is in with an $4000/mo alimony and losing his condo after his new wife spent the rest of the money and a second alimony for a 4 month marriage is unbelievable to the point of not being entertaining. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/story-memes-or-themes-you-just-cant-stand/623808.md?page=6)