# Straight Dope 1/20/2023: Have baby boomers wrecked the planet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [January 20, 2023, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508 "2023-01-20T14:10:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/121 "2023-01-24T20:30:36Z")
Perhaps the worst trait any generation has is the tendency to blame another generation for their problems. Also, I agree that ‘generation’ is a slippery concept. I always though of Boomers in terms of life experience, not age. They grew up with some of their first memories being the JFK assassination. They consider Woodstock and the Summer of Love to be key events of their youth. Kent State, Watergate, Three Mile Island and the cold war were major events to them. Inflation was a huge worry during their young adulthood when they were trying to get established. Gen X is very different in that they grew up with punk, new wave, and their early memories are more Reagan administration, Gulf War I, MTV, extreme sports… The thing is, you can be a boomer and your major life experiences could be more Gen-X. Or vice versa. I’m technically a boomer, and my wife is Gen-X because she’s two years younger. It makes no difference. Both of us grew up on ‘the wrong side of the tracks’ so to speak, and were heavily influenced by our older siblings who were firmly Boomer. On the other hand, I have Boomer friends who led sheltered lives and really didn’t step out and develop their own identities until they were firmly in the Gen-X era, and think differently than I do about a number of things. I feel older than they are, even though some are older in years, because I’m more Boomer in my sensibilities and influences. In terms of your own personality, the generation you were born into is probably one of the weaker influences. Over a mass population you can see differences perhaps, but on an individual level it’s irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/122 "2023-01-24T20:43:33Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > They grew up with some of their first memories being the JFK assassination. They consider Woodstock and the Summer of Love to be key events of their youth. Kent State, Watergate, Three Mile Island and the cold war were major events to them. Just a reminder, terms like “baby boomers”, “millennials”, and “planet” apply on an international scale. A small fraction of baby boomers consider any of the above major, life-defining events. I shouldn’t have to remind you of this… as I recall _you_ don’t live in the U.S. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/123 "2023-01-24T20:51:34Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > > So what are the rules for Cecil’s Columns/Staff Reports? > > Right here: Yes, that’s what I just referred to in the post you quoted: the general rules for these boards outside the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/124 "2023-01-24T21:04:51Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Just a reminder, terms like “baby boomers”, “millennials”, and “planet” apply on an international scale. A small fraction of baby boomers consider any of the above major, life-defining events. I shouldn’t have to remind you of this… as I recall _you_ don’t live in the U.S. > > ~Max Does it, though? I’m Canadian, but I assure you were were influenced by the same things. We listen to American music (and you listen to ours), we were just as involved in the cold war, Watergate was all anyone talked about here at the time (as a kid I got sick of hearing about it all the time), we had our hippy movement, suffered through the same inflation, etc. ‘Baby Boomer’ seems to me to be a western, or maybe even a North American thing. Are people born in Germany in 1960 considered to be baby boomers? How about in the Soviet Union? Or Japan? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/125 "2023-01-24T21:49:49Z")
The first post I linked to (“PLEASE READ: Forum Rules”) contains specific rules for the Cecil’s Columns category. For example, members who start new topics are required to link to the relevant column. This is one such category-specific rule, which happens to be substantially identical to the board-wide rule, > [@PLEASE READ: Forum Rules](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-read-forum-rules/322298/4): > > You may of course continue to question and dispute what you see as ill-founded posts or ideas, but in this forum let’s pretend to be reasonably polite to each other. Thus avoid in this forum the use of “fighting words” (including but not limited to “moronic,” “crap,” and “stupid”) when directed against thoughts and beliefs that SDMB posters have previously expressed in the same thread, or against the thoughts of any SDMB poster identified by user name. This guideline does not apply to attacks on the thoughts and statements of public figures who do not post on the SDMB. > > Naturally, direct personal insults (insults directed at a poster’s person rather than the idea he or she expresses) remain strictly forbidden in all forums outside the BBQ Pit. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/126 "2023-01-24T22:16:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > ‘Baby Boomer’ seems to me to be a western, or maybe even a North American thing. Are people born in Germany in 1960 considered to be baby boomers? How about in the Soviet Union? Or Japan? The baby boom was an international phenomenon following WWII, though most pronounced in ‘western’ countries like the U.S., Canada, New Zealand, Australia, France, Austria. I don’t believe the USSR or China had one at the time (the largest cohort in Russia was born in the '80s), potentially due to famine but I’m not too knowledgeable on the contemporary histories of those countries. What is now Germany appears to have had two distinguishable baby booms, a smaller one in the late '40s and a more pronounced one in the late '50s to mid '70s. Japan calls their post-WWII baby boom generation 団塊の世代. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/127 "2023-01-24T22:29:29Z")
There was certainly a ‘baby boom’ in the west, but I don’t think boomers are defined by the boom, but rather by their cultural experience. They were shaped by being raised by the WWII/depression generation, etc. I’m just not sure the behaviour commonalities within the ‘baby boom’ are matched outside of North America and maybe Britain, although British post-war kids had a very different experience. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/128 "2023-01-24T22:33:55Z")
I don’t see much in the original column that I would call rude. Although not Cecil’s strongest work, I look forward to future efforts. It is only one column, out of thousands, and I have enjoyed most of them. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/129 "2023-01-24T22:50:52Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I don’t think boomers are defined by the boom, but rather by their cultural experience. I disagree, baby boomers are [literally defined](https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=baby+boomer) by the boom and attempts to generalize a generational cohort into a cultural-behavioral monolith will always come up short. People like Barack Obama are considered baby boomers in the U.S. - he would have been a toddler when JFK was assassinated, and [a six year old](https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/25/us/politics/25memo.html) when MLK and RFK were shot. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/130 "2023-01-24T22:56:38Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > The first post I linked to (“PLEASE READ: Forum Rules”) contains specific rules for the Cecil’s Columns category. For example, members who start new topics are required to link to the relevant column. OK, thanks. I managed to miss that somehow – when I looked at the top of the column, I only got a short general passage. I don’t know why. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/131 "2023-01-24T23:13:28Z")
You know what’s also a Boomerism? Trying to avoid uncomfortable topics and criticism by attacking the tone and “politeness” of said criticism. So yes, let’s continue playing junior Mod here, it’s super useful. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/132 "2023-01-24T23:42:01Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > You know what’s also a Boomerism? Trying to avoid uncomfortable topics and criticism by attacking the tone and “politeness” of said criticism. Is that really something people associate with people born in the years after WWII? We need to compile a list. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/133 "2023-01-25T00:03:12Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > You know what’s also a Boomerism? Trying to avoid uncomfortable topics and criticism by attacking the tone and “politeness” of said criticism However, _someone_ will always try to defend rude language no matter how rude as long as they agree with what the person is saying. A few years ago people here were defending the use on this board of vile, sexist, and prejudiced language not even fit to repeat as a quote because they said that people were just afraid of an “angry Black man.” I, however, think that one doesn’t get a “tone pass” for anything one wants to spew just because your opponents are “uncomfortable”. Whether that’s true here, however, is up for debate. But it should be up for debate. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/134 "2023-01-25T01:42:38Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@Omniscient](#): > > So, respectfully, you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. Adding the word “respectfully” to the beginning of the sentence doesn’t make it respectful. This isn’t the Pit. Don’t make Pit style comments towards other users in this forum. > [@Omniscient](#): > > Late to the party on this one, but holy shit Cecil. Maybe it’s time to head back on hiatus if you’re going to spend pixels pushing this toxic bullshit. Sad day in these parts. If you disagree with Cecil, that’s fine. In fact we welcome respectful discourse over Cecil’s topics. This, however, is not respectful. This is just a flat-out Pit-style attack on Cecil. > [@Omniscient](#): > > You know what’s also a Boomerism? Trying to avoid uncomfortable topics and criticism by attacking the tone and “politeness” of said criticism. So yes, let’s continue playing junior Mod here, it’s super useful. I will be an actual mod here and not a junior mod. You can debate topics and criticize ideas without being an outright jerk about it. You need to dial it WAY back. Being able to discuss anything doesn’t mean you get to be rude and jerkish about it. Note to all: Feel free to criticize and debate, but be respectful. This isn’t the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/135 "2023-01-25T06:06:37Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > There was certainly a ‘baby boom’ in the west, but I don’t think boomers are defined by the boom, but rather by their cultural experience. Being part of the demographically largest generation _is_ a cultural experience. Teen culture was invented for them and they have been _the_ target market for almost everything for most of their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/136 "2023-01-25T07:35:48Z")
It looks to me that “Boomerism” is anything someone who is not a Boomer doesn’t like. It makes it handy to hurl as an insult if one intuits that one’s opponent is a Boomer. It is also more of a generic insult in that calling someone a Boomer is considered the ultimate insult. I’m glad I was not alone in finding the tone towards Cecil as disrespectful. It just didn’t sound like disagreement and debate. Like I pointed out there, I’m new, I really don’t want to ruffle feathers or “Jr. Mod.” but … well I don’t know I just found it uncomfortable. Must be 'cause I’m a boomer. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/137 "2023-01-25T07:55:15Z")
I’m torn. I am a, “Baby Boomer,” by most definitions. However, culturally I barely remember all those touch stones that are supposed to have defined us as a generation. I lived most of it through my older sibs or through, “re-runs” so to speak. I see some people posting don’t see it as a cultural thing and I understand that, but I feel sort of drifting uncomfortably between Baby Boomer and GenX. That is, if anyone actually put a lot of stock into generational crap. I really don’t except when it comes to shared experiences. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/138 "2023-01-26T02:30:33Z")
I just want to point out that Baby Boomers were not the sudden target of younger generations’ ire for no good reason. Millennials inherited a shit economic situation, largely due to the concerted actions of older conservatives to concentrate wealth more and more in the hands of the ultra-rich, to gut pensions and shift economic risk to the worker and not to mention that whole entire Earth is on fire thing. The media then made it an issue to villainize younger generations for not achieving the ideal American Dream, and Boomers lapped that shit up. Everywhere you look, Millennials are lazy, Millennials are destroying the economy, Millennials don’t want families, Millennials don’t know how to manage money, Millennials don’t work hard, Millennials are getting worthless degrees and deserve to suffer and be poor, blah blah blah. So after getting shit on twice - once by regressive conservative policies, second by omnipresent criticism by those very actors… Millennials were pretty annoyed. But it was Gen Z Og bless 'em who clapped back. “Ok Boomer” is not a random dismissal of older generations. It’s not even a reference to all older people. It is a direct response to criticism from a contingent that not only fucked up the world’s future but is actively blaming younger generations for their own economic oppression. It is a retaliation on privileged judgemental conservative assholes. So if you’re not one of those things, it doesn’t apply to you. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/139 "2023-01-26T02:54:51Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > The media then made it an issue to villainize younger generations for not achieving the ideal American Dream, and Boomers lapped that shit up. Actually, I think @Spice_Weasel has made one of the most, if not THE most important points in the thread. The whole ‘boomer’ as a unified thing as it were, is in large part a socially and media created concept. Yet another example of creating an us and them to contrast and use to support and appeal to one while dumping on the other. People then further isolate themselves within their perceived in group, and castigate those that don’t conform, which hewing ever closer to what they consider the core of their own newly identified group. Which can and does reinforce existing perceptions in a feedback loop. Note this leads to some who are boomers being dismissive of the younger generations and what is believed to be issues for them, while on the flip side, well, we get the whole point of the OP, “okay boomer, you wrecked the planet and expect ME to fix it for you?”. Both sides are being separated by the above, not seeing that everyone needs to acknowledge they are part of the problem and should be part of the solution. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508/140 "2023-01-26T03:13:20Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I just want to point out that Baby Boomers were not the sudden target of younger generations’ ire for no good reason. Everything you wrote is 100% true, and I would also point out from the GenX perspective, we grew up watching Boomers pat themselves on the back for saving the world in the 60s-70s, and in the 80s-90s popular culture very much catered to that. There was literally no other generation to talk about, and it was all flattery. (Look at the OP of this thread for that mindset personified). Popular culture of course knew a goldmine when we saw it, and the word was awash in self-congratulatory Boomer nostalgia (FFS there was an entire “Baby Boomer Edition” trivial pursuit, and don’t get me started on the inanity of _Forrest Gump_, the apotheosis of narcissistic generational glurge. Then “Generation X” was coined, seemingly for no other reason than to fulfill the Boomer need to compare themselves favorably to another generation. (And I’m pretty sure that most of the dumping on Millennials is coming from the same place, Boomers who are still grousing about “kids these days”, never mind that the elder Millennials are crossing 40). Long story short, it’s Boomers who invented this kind of generational astrology, seemingly for the purpose of finding a way to elevate themselves. And they absolutely reveled in every part of it until it became a dismissive epithet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/straight-dope-1-20-2023-have-baby-boomers-wrecked-the-planet/978508.md?page=8)